My neighbor tried to buy a Bosch 800 recently from a local appliance place. The wait was at least 8 months. She ended up with GE. Whatever you do, don't buy a LG. Absolute crap. And I no longer trust Home Depot to hire competent installers.

I would advise a mineral make-up in powder form in your situation. All liquid formulas are going to expire on you (and separate out or go all weird eventually even if you don't mind or notice that they expired three years ago). As a bonus, it is very easy to find ethical brands in this space and smaller indie companies. Many sell on Etsy or you can check your local hippie grocers. Even Sephora has some options that meet your criteria. (I would have recommended my favourites but both closed down after over a decade or two acouple years ago. I am going to be sad when I finally need to buy my eyebrow powder though.)

That’s the same one I linked above!

This seems like a good idea. I remember when I was having issues with brooms and dustpans I ended up switching to rubbermaid commercial and have been happy with them.

Do you have pets? Is it easy for them to open the can?

I have a Rubbermaid one that is wonderful. May be more industrial that you might like though. Everything else is crap.

Rubbermaid Commercial FGST12EPLRD... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CS8WOA?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

It's not as hard as you think to find a good, reliable older one. People think they need to "upgrade" by getting the latest model in a popular brand. Brand counts but longevity and reliability have to go along with it.

As for a stainless exterior, personally I avoid it because it shows every little thing. But that's just me.

Browse on Facebook Market Place and Craigslist in yor region for dishwashers. There are plenty to choose from.

We got this one last year: Bosch - 100 Series 24" Front Control Tall Tub Built-In Dishwasher with Hybrid Stainless-Steel Tub

I got the 100 series for much less. I had to go to a local appliance store since all the big box stores has a ridiculously long lead time for the lower end Bosch models. I’m happy with it, but it’s still new

Thanks! Does it have a pedal on it to make it handfree? Which one do you have?

I have a simple black plastic Rubbermaid that we've been using for at least 7 years. Not fancy but durable and inexpensive!

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An interesting thought. It would take some work to find an older unit that is well maintained. And it has to be stainless (I have a wife) but I think the concept is sound.

Grabbed on off eBay. That’s fair, they’re definitely not perfect.

Simplehuman is cheaper than the ones I’ve bought but seems pretty flimsy to me, unless they’ve changed recently. I bought one for my parents and the one in their bathroom is fine but their kitchen one is showing wear.

When did you buys yours?

Simplehuman is a popular premium offering. I got my like-new matte black one online and really like it, but I don’t know if I’d pay MSRP for it.

Adding to the not making them like they used to, I bought a Whirlpool Gold large capacity electric dryer in 2001 that is still doing its job just like it was designed to do. I had to replace the thermostat once in all those years.

My advice, always look to the past when needing a large appliance. Sturdier and much, much cheaper. Better to have $100 investment crap out than a $1000 one.

Thank you for the info, but water isn't my problem. I'm front range Colorado. They bottle our water to sell across the country. I have to add minerals to my hot tub to keep it in the appropriate range.

Reminds me of the one I had 30 years ago.

I looked into it apparently its too late for me ):

Miele all the way. Bosch/Siemens is designed to to last only about 10years

4Runners are champs. Is this for sale? lol

Yep, far as I can tell all of the current Bosch washers have that tray. Nice place to lay larger utensils, I use it more than I thought I would. You can also just take it out if you want more room in the second rack below.

5th dishwasher in 16 years? An issue not many people talk about is your water quality. If your water is hard (higher mineral content) then it is absolutely murder on your appliances. We have a Bosch and I recommend them but ours is struggling after three years in the hard water. Depending on your area you might want to look into getting a water softener (filter) which could help reduce home costs for everything in the long run. Hard water also causes other issues like scum in the bathroom and messes up plumbing. Sometimes the issue isn’t your dishwasher.

> They don't make them like the used has never been more true.

Boy howdy! It's almost a joke at this point. Two of them have crapped out and leaked and I've had to have hardwood floors refinished. A good dishwasher is much cheaper.

I bought a used Kenmore Elite several years ago for $75 off Craigslist. It was manufactured in 2003. It has a stainless steel tub. And performs perfectly every time. It runs so quietly nothing that can be heard from it.

The one I had before that was a portable Whirlpool that could be built in. So I did have it built in when I bought my house after having it in a rental. I bought it in 1990 and replaced it when I bought then Kenmore that was still working prefectly.

Two dishwashers since 1990. They don't make them like the used has never been more true.

thank you, good information. I think Bosch is the no brainer here, I'm just going to pick the model. The 300 series has the 3rd tray? that's a nice feature.

Last time I bought a major appliance in my area I literally had to take the last one in the state because I needed it now (refrigerator). But availability is still limited.