Recent comments in /f/DIY

HeadOfMax t1_iy9by2x wrote

Reply to Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

Run the romex to a 1900 box under the sink. Have it feed a double outlet and two switches. One switch can control each outlet. Plug the dishwasher and disposal into their outlets. This is to code where I am in Illinois.

I don’t care what anyone else says about the dishwasher junction box being to code it’s a hack and sloppy work.

3

dominus_aranearum t1_iy9bgzn wrote

Reply to comment by StoneTemplePilates in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

Somewhat irrelevant as the j-box for the dishwasher isn't going to be large enough for all the wires anyhow.

Technically, if only the dishwasher changed, then no, you wouldn't have to update the switch leg wire for the disposal, but if you're adding an outlet and GFCI, it should be brought up to code.

1

MyNameIsRay t1_iy9b4bk wrote

Reply to Used mastic to repair holes in front steps, eternally sticky and causing a mess now by RoarBacon

Did you ensure the areas you were filling were cleaned and dried before adding the mastic? If not, all that moisture that's now trapped inside will prevent curing.

This is probably a scrape out/re-do scenario, but even that won't work if the issue is the ambient moisture levels or quick exposure to water (like rain after you apply, sprinklers, morning dew, etc)

5

TonyFugginMontana OP t1_iy99p2w wrote

Reply to comment by dominus_aranearum in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

Thank you, this is great info. Funny you should say that about the dishwasher j-box probably not being big enough. I (stupidly) didn't photograph the original situation but I seem to recall the box was not even closed all the way in the original setup, just partly fastened on one side and bulging open, lol.

With regard to the other solution, (I think) that is one of my earlier plans. I had even diagrammed that way: https://i.imgur.com/d1brqYl.png

But is it actually possible to separate the hot on a GFCI switch like that? It seemed like the GFCI switches like this one don't have the brass tab to break the connection. They just seem to have a designated "line" upper half and "load" lower half.

1

Fuzzy_Chom t1_iy98hmm wrote

Reply to Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

Technically it'll work However, a few code issues...

  1. your dishwasher needs to be on a GFCI, so change that.

  2. NEC actually allows disposals to not be on a GFCI, due to false trips. This suggests not sharing a circuit between the two. Now, multi wire branch circuit is common to feed a disposal and dishwasher, from two different poles at the panel and share an neutral. But this is done with 12/3 from the source -- something i suspey you already knew.

We just redid our kitchen, and had a MWBCn feeding our dishwasher, light over the sink, and disposal. I ended up running a new dedicated 12/2 service to the disposal, and glad i did.

1

dominus_aranearum t1_iy96omv wrote

Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

It's definitely an odd setup but functional. Normally the dishwasher would drain into the disposal after the airgap.

My only concern would be where the dishwasher drain ties into the main line, the connection needs to be a long tee wye (because it's horizontal) and while difficult to tell from the picture, doesn't appear to be anything more than a sanitary tee.

1

dominus_aranearum t1_iy95r99 wrote

Reply to comment by TonyFugginMontana in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

Current code does require a neutral at all switches.

Nothing wrong with using the j-box at the dishwasher as long as it has enough volume for all of the connectors. Each 12 gauge wire counts as 2.25 in^(3), all grounds count together as the largest, so another 2.25 in^(3) plus whatever gauge the dishwasher wires are (if less than 14 gauge, the conductors aren't counted), plus the cable clamp @ 2.25 in^(3).

12 gauge - 4 * 2.25Ground - 1 * 2.25Clamp - 1 * 2.25 (assuming both 12/2 in one clamp)

Total = 6 * 2.25 = 13.5 in^(3) volume required for the j-box.

I sincerely doubt the j-box on the dishwasher is that large. Changing to 12/3 for the switch would add an additional 2.25 in^(3).

Technically, both dishwasher and the disposer are now required to be GFCI. All outlets/hardwire within 6' of the edge of the sink. This even includes a range hood, fridge, range, etc.

There's no need for two separate outlets. There are two ways to do this. You can use a GFCI outlet or GFCI breaker.

You can use the two outlets you suggested, or use a GFCI/AFCI combination breaker and a single outlet.

First, break the brass bridge on the 'hot' side of the outlet only. Splice the 'hot' (black) and 'neutral' (white) prior to the outlet with one leg going to the top terminals, have the 12/3 head up to the switch. At the switch, cap the neutral, hook up the red to one side of the switch and the black to the other. Back down at the outlet, hook up your red wire to the 'hot' side of the bottom terminal. Double check that you've broken the brass bridge on the 'hot' side of the outlet.

Edit: Forgot that GFCIs don't have a bridge to break. Also, if updating to code, AFCI is required as well.

1