Remember that CMP(Avangrid)is one of the backers for Maine Affordable Energy saying the cost will be 13.5 billion . Also they are giving money to them through Clean Energy Matters, NECEC (New England Clean Energy Connect). Think where those ads/money is coming from; Avangrid made almost 3 billion in Maine last year.
Not saying one way or another but don’t be an idiot and believe commercials only.
THATS WHY HE LOOKED SO FAMILLIAR!! I KNEW I had seen him somewhere before. Thanks for bringing closure to this for me 🙏🏻
They're spending our money on these stupid fucking commercials. Insult to injury.
Glad I don’t pay for cable to watch these commercials.
13 Billion cost! (Checks calculator) so at 3B profit/year we can pay ourselves back in 11 years? And everything after that is fucking gravy? I know it’s not that simple I’m just countering the stupid ads.
Taking over CMP will cost $13.5 billion. This is to pay for for the substations, poles, wires, energy control center, security infrastrcture (physical and cyber), IT systems, office buildings, etc. Divide that by 668,000 customers and it comes to $20,000 per customer. Before intetest.
Let's say hypothetically that Seth Berry and his merry minions conjure up a plan to spread the payments over 20 years. This still comes to $1000 per customer, per year.
$1000 per customer, per year. That does not even take interest and inflation into account. There is also no indication of how they will improve service or save anyone any money.
Simple math says Pine Tree Power is a horrible idea. So for the existing utility to fight this ill-conceived notion using an organization called Maine Affordable Energy makes perfect sense.
Because simple math proves that Pine Tree Power will drive up the cost of energy even more.
Math that uses CMPs own inflated number and doesn’t bother to take into account any revenue that would be coming in. Simple math indeed.
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Not sure where you’re getting $3 billion in profit. That’s like $3,000 per person.
My guy, your “simple math” means fuck all.
But also be realistic that it will still cost Mainers 13 billion dollars. People site how AVANGRID made 3 billion dollars but that is AVANGRID as a whole including all the companies under them. CMP some small fraction of it, probably millions
to only just buy CMP not including all the legal mess and cost, how many people we will need to hire to get this new company up and running. It going to be very very expensive.
Example what I mean, you can bet that majority of HR department is probably located at their head office. We probably need to build up the ground. I wonder how many other departments are located at their different locations or just spread out.
CMP doesn’t earn 3 billion dollars, that AVANGRID has a whole with all its other companies combined. They own several other electric utilities, water, gas, wind and probably others
It’s almost as if a deregulated utility is bad for the customers!?!?
From their SEC filing, 2722 (in millions) for Maine. Feel free to look, I did round up for ease, actually should have rounded down to 2.5 b.
Pine tree power will be Non Profit, so you have to also factor in CMP's profits and remove that from the cost per person of the loan payback for the math to check out properly. I am sure everyone knows Pine Tree Power won't immediately make power cheaper, but what it will do is give the people of Maine more control about their power. For something such as power, a basic human need at this point in society, it shouldn't be a for profit company. By doing this takeover now, it might not make our lives immediately more comfortable but it paves the way for our future generations to have good lives as well.
No no, 3 billion in Maine, 12.6 billion total.
My guy, that be the bill to just pay off the debt of buying them out without interest. You will still have your normal bill which roughly will be half generator cost(which CMP has no control over) and other half is delivery cost which they have some control.
Pine tree power will by default have to charge you cost to pay back the massive debt, generating power cost, delivery cost, cost to hire people to run the company. And last but not least, charge enough to get the capital to make these “grid improvements”
So your bill going to at minimum double is not triple. So will mine
This is totally valid. I don't see a concrete way where they are saying this 13.5 billion spent is beneficial. My only take can be PTP raise rates most slowly than CMP would; I would happily eat some of that in taxes or something. Its kinda a shit deal either way; deal with CMP who I think suck and are shady or lets leverage the hell out of a deal that I doubt there is a full plan for.
Cmp did not net 3 billion in profit. 3 billion divided by the 670k households is approximately 4.5k per house they have to pay. No idea where you got the idea CMP earns that
I don't think we would see the debt payback in our electric cost cause of the rate increase as you said. It will get hidden in some tax or something.
They’re on all my YouTube Ads so it’s unavoidable
It’s a debt that will be owed by Pine Tree Power to pay back not our government. All Debts by pine tree power will have to be earned through the electric bill not hidden in some state, paycheck tax removed.
https://www.avangrid.com/investors/investors/secfilings. Totally agree; unless they are stating something incorrect on their regulated documents. 2755 in millions is billions yeah? (not sarcastic but serious) I doubled checked a bunch since it seems crazy. 1,120 for distribution, 1,520 for transporting, 82 for their gas arm. It states all are millions.
Yeah that will be a joke; bad deal either way honestly.
That is the profits for AVANGRID as a whole again not CMP, I didn’t see anything that obviously broke down which one of their companies earned what. It is actually quite lacking and seems to not directly state
Ah- I have a good ad blocker thankfully. But I can see how annoying that is.
Nope, did you actually open the 10-K? they literally break it down into CMP dist, CMP trans, and Gas (not CMP).
​
I saw. It states the page 9 something about CMP rate of 2.6 billion but doesn’t anywhere as far as I could easily tell break down what of that is profit. Because again that be thousands of dollars per person every year
I think you're confusing Rate Base with profit. There's a footnote defining Rate Base. It's not a revenue or profit figure.
"“Rate base” means the net assets upon which a utility can receive a specified return, based on the carrying value of such assets. The rate base is set by the relevant regulatory authority and typically represents the value of specified property, such as plants, facilities and other investments of the utility. These rate base values have been calculated using the best estimates as of December 31, 2022. "
This seems like a short sighted mind set. I for one would like to improve things for the generations to come. Maybe I will have to spend money now for something better in the future but I’m all for leaving things better than I found them.
Weird, so according to this SEC filing their assets in Maine are assessed at 2.7 billion. I wonder how CMP rounds it up to 13.5 billion in all of their commercials.
The assets in the rate base are depreciated, so fair market value could be higher than that. Also we don't know what is and isnt included in rate base asset. Does it include their office buildings? Trucks? I honestly have no idea, but I'd imagine it's less than the total FMV of CMPs assets. The maine utility regulator might have a more detailed breakdown.
That said I doubt there's anything stopping CMP from inflating the number to 13.5bn in the commercial. So your answer is really it'll cost likely more than 2.7bn, but less than 13.5bn.
That makes a lot more sense thank you.
I haven’t seen an ad in 3 years now.
15-second unskippable YouTube ads don't come cheap, bub. Now cough up another 30% bill hike.
OP is stupid, which is probably why they deleted their account.
https://s24.q4cdn.com/489945429/files/doc_financials/2022/04/4Q-'21-All-Companies.pdf
Net income (profit) for CMP is right around $180 million
Nowhere close to $3 Billion.
Their total assets are around $5 Billion.
For reference Pine Tree Power has to buy Verisant too, and their assets are worth right about $1 Billion.
Since both are profitable companies, you won’t be able to buy them for less than face value, and will likely have to buy them for some multiple of that (ever watch Shark Tank?)
So call it 1.5x ($6 Billion) and you’re going to pay a minimum of $9 Billion for this statewide takeover.
What makes you think a bunch of politicians will make the system better? You DO understand that it is a politician that started this whole mess, right?
Using nostalgia for sympathy bait.
CMP sending emails everytime the wind blows helps me to REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER
We really should've invested in nuclear. And if you guys say no cause of chrnyblye or the 9 mile thingy idc, hate you you.
And I can't wait!
Better than paying for public pensions in foreign countries
Dude you can't even spell Chernobyl properly how the fuck are we even supposed to take you seriously?
OP was probably a CMP simp….
Seems like the opposite
I still agree. Let's vote out CMP in November! We shouldn't need much help given that they are the lowest rated utility in the entire country.
That was funny
Fuck CMP
The power grid should be nationalized not owned by a multinational corporation.
Cause idc & we're not dumb fucking slavs or ruskies
Would you rather rent something that you need, or own something that you need?
Unfortunately, I haven't found a good as blocker for watching on my Xbox (our source of "TV") or on my phone.
Regardless of whichever numbers are correct, no one seems to be taking commercial, industrial, and other non-residential ratepayers into account in their comments. It's not just households.
Kind of a dumb question. Think of CMP like a Boeing 747.
>Would you rather rent the plane, or own the plane?
Well either way, I don’t know how to fly the plane. So in one case I rent it and someone else flys it. In the other case, I have to buy it, make payments on it, and still have to hire someone else to fly it for me.
Please enlighten me on why I should agree that this is a mess and why I should follow your corporate boot licker ideas?
I feel you. But they moved me to Maine from out of state , then canceled my contract 2 weeks later because they realized they were over budgel. So it's hard for me to sympathize for them. They just seem way too focused on profit over people's livelihood, even outside of my situation, from what I've been told by locals.
Shocker
They are getting 600$ a month from me
He’s also wearing NCEC brand on sweatshirt. Edit: NECEC
This isn’t as good of a metaphor as you seem to think it is.
The current owners are “flying the plane” either. They’ve hired people for that.
But in your scenario, you are comparing it to a plane, and stating that buying a plane ticket is cheaper than buying a plane. Well, yes, but that's because the airline makes money selling many plane tickets (and service fees and add ons) to many individuals.
Maine power consumers are on the hook for the entire cost to generate and distribute the power, whether it is done privately or publicly. CMP aren't doing it for charity, any cost they incur, they are recouping through rate hikes and then some.
So would you rather pay for the entire plane, plus maintenance, plus fuel, plus pilots and air traffic controllers, plus any other cost of owning and operating the plane, plus A BUTT LOAD OF PROFIT for the people who own the plane, or would you rather own the plane yourself?
Deregulation in the utility industry means that supply can be bid competitively, separate from delivery. I’m currently saving $.09/ kWh this way.
How is this bad?
Which part of deregulation has hurt you here?
Should just change the sub to r/CMP at this point.
About $4,600 (they only have 650,000 customers).
So that would be just under 400 in profit per month per customer. That’s after all salaries, materials, trucks, fuel, storm costs, etc.
The $3B number for Maine is nonsense.
I’ve seen a lot of posts where people think they’re just going to buy the assets and skip. Absurd.
Put it up for sale and see if it goes for 2.7
If that’s at home you’re using too much electricity
How much if your bill at home represents profit?
“Rate base” and “profit” are not the same.
You’re so close to getting it…..
Pine Tree Power will have to subcontract operations to another company. So you may own the plane, but you still have to pay a “BUTT LOAD OF PROFIT” to whichever company they contract to do that.
To stick with the plane metaphor; you’re buying the plane from United just to say you own it, but then you’re contracting it to Jet Blue, because you don’t know the first thing about plane ownership.
So now you’re paying back the loan you took out to buy the plane, AND you’re paying jet blue to manage it for you.
Heat pump
So you’re choosing to run up your CMP bill to avoid an oil bill.
No shit, my (video) ad exposures per year has to be in the single digits, almost all of them come from gas station pumps. Ads make me irrationally angry.
Firefox, ublock origin and sponsorblock for my internet, and I don't have cable.
The issues raised in the report are well known.
I’m failing to see the connection between that and the issue you replied to.
CMP did not create and does not operate Maine’s competitive market. It’s better for them if it’s a thriving market that helps consumers but they really have nothing to do with it. Competitive suppliers are competing with a price the system sets, not CMP.
Not seeing your point.
It's too expensive to bury powerlines!! proceeds to spend millions in commercials
Sigh. Your comment was that 'Deregulation in the utility industry means that supply can be bid competitively' and the report points out that that has approach has not worked for consumers. So, when you ask 'Which part of deregulation has hurt you here?' the answer is 'the whole deregulation part.'
The only people that will save (make!) money off of this buyout are the banks which finance it and lawyers that write the paperwork.
We the people that purchase electricity won’t save a penny in delivery costs, remember that CMP just owns and cares for the hardware that delivers electricity, they don’t make electricity.
Those who created this initiative did so because of CMP’s customer service ratings, but have not released any plans on how they would improve CS ratings. I believe that if this purchase goes through, they will hire some bidder to run the company…
No guarantees of any improvements, just a whole lot of bullsh!t procedures that will make lawyers rich as they process the changeover and some currently unknown entity (low bidder) will be hired to run the corporation.
Better the devil you know than the devil you have no idea about, wasting millions of dollars to process the change of ownership…
No shit, right?! I hate them with a passion.
Everyone is missing the fact that cmp and versant will now be owned by the govt. Over time the initial purchase will be paid, then the state will start making money on it, all the while collecting taxes on their publicly owned utility. The govt will make profit, ever does that go? Not back to the rate payers, that's for sure. Pine tree power is just a shell. The whole thing is a bad idea, govt is never the answer!
None of that is true. That's not how it works.
I moved from South Carolina where we had a public owned co-op. We got better service and cheaper bills than the Duke Energy households. When the public owns the utility there are no shareholders to pay and you are not trying to make a profit. It is not a hard concept to understand.
I didn’t say it was helping consumers. Consumers get screwed because they don’t pay attention, and that has zero to do with CMP. That said I don’t see how it is hurting them in the context where you said it.
If you said your car had a flat and I said, “SEE? Competitive supply!” And rubbed my beard, you’d look at me funny.
I’m looking at you funny, because the existence of a deregulated supply market has exactly nothing to do with CMP buying ads, which is the topic you responded to and a bunch of people upvoted.
How much did it cost to purchase the assets that made up the co-op? Or was the co-op created to install and service the electricity delivery hardware from the get go?
Did the co-op also produce the electricity? CMP doesn’t produce the electricity so there would be no savings on the electricity itself. Nor do we know if there would be any savings…
It would most likely take several years and millions of dollars spent (paid to lawyers, not Maine’s citizens) to make the purchase. And since they are going to farm out the running of the resultant quasi-governmental entity to some currently unknown bidder, there are no guarantees that customer service and/or servicing their grid assets will remain the same or improve or if there would ever be profits!
To succeed this project should state
Otherwise this issue is too open ended to approve.
I am not going to explain the history or how to when it comes to power co-ops. Blue ridge electric didn’t produce power but maintained the lines and delivered. Google is your friend. Maine already has some power co-ops.
“The 20 distribution electric cooperatives in South Carolina deliver dependable electric power to 800,000 accounts in South Carolina” As well as 3rd in the country nuclear power supply.
Looks like South Carolina’s electricity business is a lot different than Maine’s, so the economics would be different as well. I doubt if any SC co-op had to takeover and buyout over $15 billion of assets to be created. That should not be a hard concept to understand.
But this over $15 billion buyout is nothing like any single SC co-op has ever done. The fees alone for this buyout would probably dwarf the revenue of most of SC’s co-ops. Then there is securing the $15 billion of securities to pay for it, and right now the cost of borrowing is up. If Revenue Bonds are used, any profits would be payments for the bonds, not otherwise available for the state of Maine’s coffers until bonds get paid off.
There are no guarantees of anything improving, the who, what, why and when of the purchase and any improvements aren’t known.
I’m definitely happy I’m on Versant instead of CMP. However, as much as I hate them both, why in the hell should we put our power grid in the hands of politicians regardless of the purchase cost? If the PUC would actually do their job in terms of capping costs, we wouldn’t be in this predicament.
Are you one of those people that believes socialized medicine would be more expensive as well? Yes it is an investment but we can’t continue on the path we are on. We are going to be installing wind and solar at our home because of the ridiculous energy prices here. We are lucky that we can afford to do so. The delivery fees CMP charges is more than what an electric bill should be. You are being fleeced and you are denying it. I can’t help you understand how a public utility is better than a private for profit utility. BTW those electric co-ops were take overs by the local communities because they were being robbed. Do more research or live in your delusion. South Carolina is too red to allow a massive takeover of the power grid, it would help too many people. It is why we moved out of it.
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No. My healthcare is taken care of, thank you very much and that’s how it should be for everyone in the country.
Just saying that the proposal gives no guarantees, no cost estimates, no savings estimates, no info on who will run it, or who might have the expertise to improve CMPs customer service.
Tell us how this takeover will improve life for Maine and CMP’s customers and how much it will cost. A little estimation and analysis would go far. As an Analyst I want to see their analysis of the proposed buyout. Would you buy any business without knowing total cost, loan or bond payments and payoff, estimated profits, and so much more that should be considered for a buyout.
Right now it seems like the people organizing this endeavor want blank checks to do whatever they want, without supplying any estimates of money or time.
You, and they, say things will improve. Then I am looking forward to their commercials with information showing us all how things will improve. Until then it is all hot air! Prove it- give us examples of previous takeovers, their costs and timelines and how they relate to this proposal.
So here is my final word. I don’t trust CMP at all. They are fighting to make everyone think it is a bad idea. They are spending millions on ad campaigns to tell you so. They offer high prices to just deliver the energy. Whenever someone that has been proven to be shitty all of a sudden is trying to show you how bad the fix is, there is a reason. Over the years it was done by tobacco with cancer and the oil/gas industry when it came to lead. So I will go with the other team because the status quo isn’t working.
My final word is that the writers of this initiative have given nothing to go on, for us to trust. But say “trust us to do this”… We’ll put company management out to bid… they aren’t even saying that it will save customers money.
Who are they, what’s their experience doing this, how much money will they make if this passes? How can one trust in an unknown entity and undefined process, with unknown costs and outcomes? Co-ops can be as badly managed as any corporate entity, and they don’t tell us who or how they will manage a CMP Co-op, or how much it will cost us.
In Denmark and the Netherlands, for example, their electricity is all publicly-owned. It's gone so well that in the Netherlands, there's a law against privatizing it.
from what i see googling this, the price per kilowatt hour is over double maine's rate in both countries. does this turn out to be cheaper through some other fees?
I'm not sure, to be honest. I think it's tough to compare energy rates because there are so many variables, like cost of energy source, etc.
Personally, I'm more interested in customer satisfaction- which we do know here in Maine, we don't have.
people are going to be really satisfied when they have to pay nearly 2.7x as much and then competition is made illegal by law lol
You can find the full text of the ballot measure here.
To answer questions not covered, you can talk to residents who live in Maine communities who already have publicly owned electricity.
Fun fact: it is totally legal to lie in political campaign ads in the US. The FTC's truth in advertising regulations only apply to advertisements for commercial goods and services, and the FCC has no equivalent regulations for candidate or issue advertisements.
SplinterLips t1_jc7ipx3 wrote
I love how they are using “No line is safe to touch” guy in their commercials. Yeah, no one is going to put together the fact that he is a well known CMP employee and spokesperson.