>I would say we should collectively either only attend group buys from hosts that meet deadlines

When you say "hosts", who exactly do you mean? The main vendor, or the manufacturer? You can't blame one for the shortcomings of the other.

I have a friend that has a laser CNC that costed WAY less than yours. Gives and amazing quality (not sure about efficiency so maybe you would need 5 of them for a GB). I am also taking raw materials cost under account and I do think that people are overpricing their GB keyboards heavily.

Even if your CNC costs 25k USD and it is only a fraction of you investment, when you sell 100 keyboards that cost 1000k USD, it's still a small cost. Not to mention it's an investment and if you really only want to do one group buy, just freaking sell it afterwards.

Oh, thanks! I wasn’t in this community then lol. I feel very new still

Really!? Wow I’m out of the loop… maybe they were wondering where the next glarses post was?

Such as "what is the best switch?" etc. No one can really answer that.

See this is the big problem. People who have no idea what things cost are offering unrealistic solutions. I used cnc mill is about 25,000 and you’re not even talking raw material cost, or annodization vats or anything. Welcome to the real world. You can’t just make a business like that, especially if you aren’t born into money. RAMA is a horrible comparison because he had money before his keyboard business.

>I want things to change

Obviously, but why, and how is getting rid of group buys going to achieve this change. Furthermore, what would this change be?

> Im not saying it’s easy, but I could figure it out and do it if I wanted to.

I guess we'll never know.

And can any of them actually be silent!?!

The thing that’s stopping me from designing a set is my lack of interest in doing so. Im not saying it’s easy, but I could figure it out and do it if I wanted to.

I want things to change, and if people keep getting sucked into group buys, that’ll never happen. By spending money on group buys, you’re saying that it’s okay and totally acceptable to get strung along with minimal communication for two years. It’s not okay and people need to quit thinking it is

Let it cost 10x that. If you are selling 100 keyboards for the price of 1k USD, you can invest in that. Especially if you are as "big" as rama or zeal and you are planning to do GB in the future. That's how a normal manufacturing business works in real life.

Yeah I dig it

Good example. Big name (like Zeal) and a service/managing quality that a vegetable stand lady would laugh at.

I accomplish minimal lubing by only applying a thin application to stems. No lube needed anywhere else. Springs need lubricant as well.

A cnc machine costs far far far more than that, it was an example of living in your perfect world that is completely unrealistic.

That's exactly what I am saying, If the only thing you can provide as a GB host is an idea and a good will, then I am better off with other costly hobbies, that provide items with not only good quality, but also a basic quality of service.

1000 dollars for a CNC machine is not a lot if you are selling keyboards that each one of them cost 1k.

Things have not gotten better with Covid lock downs, supply chain issues, and shipping cost volatility. In fact, I would wager that some of the GB hosts are using it as an excuse for their lack of project management skills. I follow RAMA works' Instagram and most of their posts are lousy with GB buyers asking for a status update on their purchase (some a year or more old). And not surprisingly, RAMA just flat out ignores their plead for an update.

A person named Fran on mykeyboard.eu discrord channel said they are meeting deadlines... I don't know what I should think about it now...

But what your explaining isn’t sustainable for a niche hobby. You expect every group buy runner, that wants to run caps for example, to do the tooling and injection molding themselves? You’re going to be paying a grand a set because that’s a ridiculous idea. Every person that wants to run a keyboard needs a cnc machine and mill and the warehouse space? You’re going to be paying thousands for just a case? As a runner why would I pay more for American production, for example, when it’s more expensive, has just as many delays, and honestly isn’t any better in quality and often times worse in quality than Chinese manufacturing? Make no mistake I’m not defending gmk or any one else that has absurd delays, but in your perfect world I better be able to pick up a cnc machine for $1000 down the street and have some sort of universal income so that I can quit my job, sit in my garage and machine keyboard cases myself.

I have this one and it’s so cute.

got a little too excited huh?

i see

Lily does indeed support rotary encoders (at least newer versions). I think that's it's just a modern "available" alternative

What do you mean by keyreative meeting deadlines? They are behind production as much as gmk, or similar. Kat refined was delivery a few months ago, over 1 year after the ETA. Kat Atlantis and Explosion 2 years to ship, Kat Mizu is not even in production after more than 2 years...

The other big problem is 99% of the time it’s a subjective question.

I don't know exactly. Never really looked into the lily. I think they have a similar PCB and both are fitting the lulu case. I don't know if the lily Supports the rotary encoders or if it just uses Themen spot for a switch.