Reminds me of my younger days! Love it!

I’m not going through 10 years of GH posts. You’re buying them from a runner knowing they are at the mercy of GMK lead times. How are you going to blame the runner when GMK changes the deliverable time. That’s not the runners fault. You’re holding runners accountable for manufacturers short comings. It’s unreasonable.

Why not? I only have the blue one now, the other two have been sold.

I will ask again, can you give me examples of runners that kept their deadlines?
From my experience, GMK group buys don't stick to their deadlines. I don't know if it's the manufacturer's fault or the runners but I blame the runner in the end because I am not buying keycaps from GMK. I buy them from the runner.

>I could say the same about you

You could, but it would be unfounded.

>that you have no idea how the business and the manufacturing industry works in general.

I know that the volumes involved in custom keycap sales is not sufficient to sustain the kind of manufacturing you are talking about. This is backed up by facts. Every (properly run) group buy thread in Geekhack is updated regularly with sales figures, and we know precisely how most keycap sets sell. If you could be bothered researching this before you decided to wade in with damp powder, you would have realised this. It's a niche market. You seem to think that it's possible to just make container loads of these things and sell them. It's unrealistic, as almost every other respondent in this thread is also telling you. I know how much it costs to make the molds for double shot novelties... do you? I know how much it costs to develop and design a keycap set properly... I mean the personal investment to the designer. Do you? I know how much the vendors pay GMK (for example) and how much profit is made by both the vendors and the designers... do you? Everything you are suggesting is unrealistic. A really successful keycap group buy sells around two to three thousand units (and were talking about the big hitters here), including extras. This is publicly available data, should you be bothered to confirm it. The market for what you suggest is just not there. The only time it is tenable, is when a set has already proven itself to be popular, in which case other rounds are run, or in some cases, a large vendor, such as Drop will make a deal with the designer, and offer them as an in stock option, and only because they can be far more confident that larger quantities will sell... and even THEN, the numbers involved are small when compared to stuff sold to the wider, more general markets such as the gaming market.

>I know exactly how it works as I am manufacturing items on a big and startup scale.

Then why are you failing to understand, despite being told by multiple sources, why you are wrong?

>Don't be a jerk and stop projecting your insecurities on other people.

What insecurities? I'm supplying you with facts.. easily verified facts. You refuse to even acknowledge that you could possibly be wrong though, let alone verify the facts you are being given. Everything you are saying is based purely on your opinion, and backed up by precisely zero facts.

Are group buys perfect? No.

Can they be improved? Probably.

Are they essential to maintain the autonomy and creative nature of this hobby? Fuck yes!

Should we get rid of them? Not until you, or anyone else comes up with a better model that allows us, as members of this community to design and make reality the keyboards and accessories we actually want.

Will big business with lots of cash to invest give us that? No. Of course not.

Do you actually have any real, workable solutions? No.

Are you just bitching because you have to wait for these crowd funded, low production run, bespoke products to be made because you entered into them with the same attitude as you would have had buying something off Amazon? Yes.

Should you just stay away from group buys? Probably.

But did you grab anyone?

I second this. I think there is a bot.

I would still like to know what's the percentage of the profit. What is the average income from a group buy, per keyboard? Do you know if any runner gave any post-mortem or post-success summary with values? I have a feeling that the only way of knowing how much you can profit is to run a GB by your own.

I can’t wait to built my zoom tkl

GMK generally doesn’t require prototypes because they already have the tooling. There aren’t very many through Covid, but that’s at no fault of the runners, pre Covid there definitely were GBs that stuck to their deadlines and estimates.

Why

Only on this dumbass millennial app would you chronic masturbators post your losses so willingly. This is just sad and pathetic. BIG Reddit moment.

You are completely right, I give you that. I chosed poor group buys - Zeal's Xeno, first GMK Dots, first Massdrop x T0mb3ry GMK Carbon, etc.
Can you give me an example of runners that sticked to their deadlines?

the people who do it probably won't even be able to tell you why, but it only harms the hobby and those already in it. We need more consumers to lower prices and improve wait times.

Well, call it something else if you prefer, and can find the ‘right’ word. What you a purchasing is a part of a production slot.

Yes, you are effectively taking part in the profit. Most things in a GB would have a much higher price unles it met a MOQ which requires either the GB or a full financing from a single backer taking all the risk and all the profit. Then it would still likely cost more, as that would in-fact be the profit for that backer.

Sure the designer/runner takes more of the profit on paper, but most of them do not accurately count their actual worked hours and if they did, the GB would in many cases be a net loss for them.

dude has not been in the loop. When I join a gb I make sure I'm in that discord server before I hit buy and ask around about whatever questions I have. You can't instantly trust any gb since purchase protection is non existent in all of them no matter what you pay through.

This is fair enough. But one thing that many people forget about is the sound. I have Zealios v2 in one of my boards and they sound very harsh and high pitched (which I kinda like). Different linear switches would sound different to others which can’t really be stated in a switch tester.

You joined a group buy that had no prototype or proof of concept, which means the runner had no example in hand. This is usually a red flag and signals that you shouldn’t join the group buy. You chose to take that risk.

>when you failed to do what might be the simplest part of buying into something, making sure the product actually exists or even could exist.

Can you elaborate? English is not my main language and I think my skill surrendered here.

or maybe don't join 5 gmk gbs at once

What are you doing then because you haven’t made a good point yet? And like I said if you chose to buy something that had no proto, then that’s on you, don’t try and start some grand hate thread on group buys when you failed to do what might be the simplest part of buying into something, making sure the product actually exists or even could exist.

Damnit. I'll repost tomorrow then

Not how it went in GBs I was attending. You are just arguing for the sake of winning.

A missed opportunity: Behold! My Odin sons.

I could say the same about you, that you have no idea how the business and the manufacturing industry works in general. How would you feel?
I know exactly how it works as I am manufacturing items on a big and startup scale.
Don't be a jerk and stop projecting your insecurities on other people.