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Could the residents of Baltimore create an initiative on the next election ballot for a vote to override this legislation?

Extremely helpful comment. I’d been searching for this.

Paul’s gee has been going down hill

Most government jobs come with a pension that vests after 10 years. The state and city do this I believe. The federal government does after 5. The amount is based on years of service so you get more if you work longer. I don't disagree about people not being able to vote on things that benefit themselves but in just pointing out that pensions for government employees are incredibly common.

I will email the Mayor. Thank you.

Yeah, that's an odd autocorrect there lol

If the price is right, there are buyers. But if they don’t even try to sell…

Noona’s and Paulie Gee’s.

I was so unimpressed with JBGB’s pizza. It was just OK.

I might try to be a Robert Stokes. 8 years to work part time while making 70k+ / year and then get a pension? Seems better then the 40+ years I will spend working full time while contributing to my 401k with no guarantees.

city councilmember salary / perks

The answer to your original question is to vote them out next election. I already have many reasons to vote for someone other than Phylicia Porter next time, Porter has ruined our neighborhoods, exploited our roads, elevated her friends and destroyed the moral of our communities. Porter voted for the shorter pension requirements in the first vote, she abstained in the second vote when it was clear the bill had enough votes to pass without her. I won’t forget this when I cast my vote in two years. I’ll remind my neighbors, we’re already talking about what we can do to support someone other than Porter. The previous council rep Eddie Reisinger had his bad sides but he was never this corrupt. What council rep is in your area? How did they vote? Would you vote for someone else next election?

I wrote an email to the mayor urging him to veto the bill, sometimes his staff responds to my emails, I hope a staff member reads them all at least.

Maybe as a city of informed residents we can push the mayor to veto this bill? You can use this form to email the mayor. https://mayor.baltimorecity.gov/node/28

Actually not true, because they could run for other positions in city government. Also, ANDDDDD?? Let's be honest here, they didn't EARN one after 12 years either! What other organization/company gives a pension after 8 OR 12 years? I have to be at my job 10 years to be "vested" but I actually need like 25+ years of service to meet the full requirements. Baltimore City government is like a parasitic monarch, it's totally self serving to those in charge. As if 70k/year isn't compensation enough.....half of the members miss half the meetings anyways, even fail to vote on key issues being discussed

Voters decided we should have term limits despite research/evidence they're not a good idea, so I don't really take issue with pension matching the term limits. I do think it was a shitty time and way to go about it (thanks Nick Mosby). I hope the mayor vetoes it and council introduces an amendment to repeal term limits next election, giving a longer period of time for debate that isn't solely funded by a right wing billionaire.

I also have no issue with pension for councilmembers. I think they should be paid more and be full time. Being a good councilperson is a terrible job. I'd rather try to get more good people running and serving, even if it sometimes accidentally rewards a Robert Stokes.

Sugarvale?

I'd be down to scream and shout on Holiday Street if anybody else is. Not sure it'll do anything tho, it seems like the government here only gets more arrogant and pushes harder when people stand up. That's literally what they're doing here "ohhhhh you THOUGHT you'd get rid of us, okay fine but we're still getting a pension hahahahaha." Look how they continue to praise the school leaders for the great job they're doing as people protest various issues in front of city schools headquarters.

This is before my time here, so can’t comment specifically. I will only offer that they also provide substantial services and refuge to homeless folks through their facility on the other end of the block. It’s a different kind of benefit, and perhaps things don’t really net out in that way, but it bothers me less.

Is there any other job you can do for 8 or 12 years and have a pension for life? If these positions don’t offer such a compelling financial benefit then maybe self-serving individuals wouldn’t be interested and people who want to better their community would be in these positions instead.

Yes, a different poster (me) than the one you called a liar said they had a different experience (that's still with the property being locked frequently).

Hope that clears it up for you.

My point exactly. People shouldn’t be in these positions for a payout. What other job can you do for 8 or 12 years and get a lifetime pension? They should be in the position because they want to make their community better, not for a paycheck.

This is a Greek Orthodox Church, with a specific focus on that specific community. They don’t have any more specific obligation to serve people located nearby than a Korean Presbyterian church in Lagos or an African AME church in Reykjavik would. And that’s just staying within the generally Christian sense of a religious community.

I think the bigger (and only) issue is that it’s a tax exempt institution that appears to primarily serve people outside the city, and wishes to make architectural/zoning changes to buildings that are completely separate from infrastructure critical to the functioning of the institution itself, and the changes (at least seem to) negatively impact the neighborhood without providing any tangible benefit. That’s it.

One thing to also keep in mind — if we value the Greek Church structure itself historically, somebody has to maintain it, and those funds have to come from somewhere…

To everyone talking about affordable housing — it’s unlikely these buildings themselves would provide affordable housing if rehabbed; the benefit would come from increasing the total supply of housing in the immediate vicinity.

(edited partially in light of kermelie’s comments below)

JBGB's in Remington has done excellent wood fired pizzas

Pauly Gee, Hampden

JBGB, Remington

The term limit measure limits elected officials to two terms in a twelve year period. They can apply for another role in the government or run for office again after the four year break.

I didn’t support the term limit measure at first but I’m glad it passed. Hearing Councilman Stokes talk about city council being the only job he has makes me wonder how many council members are in it for money. Years ago council members had full time jobs in addition to being the council rep. It’s absurd these council reps have no other source of income, do very little for the areas they represent, and expect a full pension after eight years.

Exactly. With the passage of Question K, anything else effectively abolishes the pension system. That said, you can make the argument that council members shouldn’t qualify for a lifetime pension in the first place, or that 12 years of service is a significant enough sacrifice to merit that benefit whereas 8 isn’t, which a lot of people would probably agree with.

That said, as far as I understand it, the realistic path to change this would be be A) the mayor vetoes the bill or B) another question gets put on the ballot for 2024 to repeal the term limits imposed by question K, and then the presiding council votes to return the pension qualification to 12 years