Can we give it to cops instead?

> Already explained to you why that's not going to happen.

How convenient. Almost as if matte causes graininess by its nature, and glossy displays do not have "native matte" surfaces. If the "diffusion" is the problem, then all the matte panels would be far sharper than the glossy panels, as by your definition glossy panels have an additional layer on top of the matte panel.

> Do your eyes look at individual subpixels? No.

Look up the concept of subpixel antialiasing. Also that LG Gram, Zenbook and Vivobook are all 1080p, so that excuse won't fly either.

Again, I'm waiting for that mythical matte panel with subpixels as clear as almost all the glossy laptop panels.

> it should be even easier to find the matte panels with sharp subpixels, given your claim

Already explained to you why that's not going to happen.

> Except most glossy display notebooks are as sharp.

Sharpness is determined by resolution, not by how individual subpixels look under a microscope. Do your eyes look at individual subpixels? No.

Except most glossy display notebooks are as sharp.

Macbook air

Acer Spin 5

Surface Laptop 3

LG Gram 14

Vivobook 15 Pro

Huawei Matebook 13

Given it's so easy to find the glossy panels with sharp subpixels, it should be even easier to find the matte panels with sharp subpixels, given your claim. Especially when many of them cost far more than the laptops I've listed, so no excuses about "low end panels" either.

DARPA has entered the chat

Perhaps a Faraday cage instead of helmet lmao

That's not an "excuse". It's an explanation. These photos are always going to look like that because of the physics you yourself mentioned. That doesn't mean that the actual screen will look grainy. Because most don't.

Yeah, that's all well and good until your solider try to microwave his coffee.

Or the enemy breaks out microwave generarors and starts frying their brain circuits.

I don't need your excuses.

If you are right and I am wrong, you should be able to find at least one laptop with a matte display that is at least as sharp as the one I posted. Especially when there are laptops with matte displays that cost several times that of the Zenbook.

Unless you can post one such laptop from the immense database of Notebookcheck, it's all hot air and trolling.

Yeah, we wasted a shit load of money on this already. We're a stupid, stupid, stupid country.

> Ah yes, professional monitors having to come with massive hoods to block out ambient light, studios having to be painted in neutral gray colors to prevent the brain from automatically correcting color casts, and mastering standards specifying bias lighting specifically to enhanced perceived contrast are all snake oil.

No, because all those factors change actual lighting. You know what those professionals also don't like? Reflections. That's why they have those hoods. And a lot of other professionals also just opt for matte screens instead. (Or both.)

> why your "uncoated native matte" is somehow even more blurry (even with your surface pro 9 example lol) than the supposed "gloss is just glass over matte" screens, in literally all cases

Because you are taking pictures of sub-millimeter particles with average equipment through a surface that diffuses light and not through clear glass. That matters for seeing individual subpixels on photos like that - and doesn't for the actual picture, because your eyes are looking at the result of those subpixels combined. If the screen actually appears grainy, that means that its surface is just low quality coarse garbage. And guess what, I've seen that with glossy screens too!

Imagine losing this in the field and causing a brigade to do hands across America for 6 days.

They need to go full Warhammer and just patch the sensors directly into the soldiers’ brains. No heavy goggles to worry about, just a skull implant

That was the other part...had to strap the helmet down tighter...so jaw ended up hurting.

We owned the night and all...but man it hurt like hell... lol

Yea I remember this.

As a conscript soldier, we weren't issued with counterweights, so after 10 mins of running, jumping and simply moving, the NVGs were at nose level. I couldn't see shit.

> Oh okay, so we're firmly into snake oil territory now. Instruments say the colours are the same, but "perception" isn't.

Ah yes, professional monitors having to come with massive hoods to block out ambient light, studios having to be painted in neutral gray colors to prevent the brain from automatically correcting color casts, and mastering standards specifying bias lighting specifically to enhanced perceived contrast are all snake oil.

> Why is it like that? It's glossy! It's supposed to be crystal clear!

They do have a whole ass Wacom pressure sensitive layer on top, but go on, find more excuses and deflection as to avoid answering why your "uncoated native matte" is somehow even more blurry (even with your surface pro 9 example lol) than the supposed "gloss is just glass over matte" screens, in literally all cases.

Yep, a troll indeed.

You want to prove your point? Go ahead, show one laptop with a matte screen that has at least equal sharpness to the panel I showed you. Should be really damn easy, given the Zenbook isn't an expensive laptop and doesn't really use high end panels.

Until you can't, you'll remain a troll.

> Fine, it can be plastic as well. Happy? Does that change anything?

Yes. It disproves your false claim that "matte screens have glass on top because polarizer is always made of glass". Though by the end of your comment, you're already back to pretending that's the case. Does that actually work on people? I kinda always assumed it wouldn't.

> That looks like matte to you? Since when do matte displays have razor sharp reflections?

That's not "razor sharp" lol. And we've established that matte screens reflect to some extent as well. I can see myself in my matte screens when they are turned off - they don't behave the same way when turned on.

> If you haven't noticed, display tech has progressed quite a bit since then, and we used laminated displays now.

Which changes... what, exactly? Adds glass to matte displays? Nope.

> And as for peeling off layers, what exactly is up with all the "matte removal" processes available online? Are these companies putting on "natively matte" panels, then putting glossy glass on it, and then again putting a matte coating on it?

I mean... that's exactly what Apple has done, as shown in the video I've linked. Matte panel, then glass on top, then "anti-glare" coating on top of glass (which doesn't work very well but it gives their marketing another buzzword). Yes, they fuse them nowadays instead, but the layers remain the same.

Stripping the top layer from the panel and exposing the fragile inner layer doesn't make it the same as an actual glossy screen. Again, glossy screens have a glass (or hard plastic) on top of the panel (or fused with it), which generates most of the reflections. This exposed inner layer is still semi-soft, easily damaged, and will get absolutely destroyed by cleaning solutions (meanwhile, actual glossy screens can be fully cleaned with a microfiber cloth, especially since the glass allows them to be coated with an oleophobic layer - standard on most phones nowadays). It is not glass. People in the comments on that video even recommend getting a protective film for it, because it will get easily damaged otherwise. Hint: that does not happen with glass.

Yes, it's reflective, congratulations - but that's not at all what a glossy display on my MacBook or my Windows convertible is like. You can clearly feel the glass on them if you touch them. You won't feel it on that stripped display. In fact, the way it looks strongly reminds me of monitors sold in the early 00s when LCDs were still new and people didn't even know terms like "matte" or "glossy". Those monitors scratched extremely easily and their reflectiveness was somewhere in between real matte and real glossy displays and was annoying to both camps. They don't exist anymore nowadays.

> Same colorspace, same brightness, same resolution, same refresh rate. What more do you want?

Official specs that confirm that and not just your word.

> I just used max brightness for the worst case scenario. In most cases even that's not required.

Yes, except I have yet to find these "most cases" with this Macbook whenever any lighting is involved.

> Except I don't have to. I cant just tilt my screen away from light sources to completely eliminate reflections.

> tilt my screen away

> tilt my screen

It took over a decade for TN screens to be finally phased out and humanity breathed a collective sigh of relief once they no longer had to constantly adjust their screens to avoid colour distortion and brightness changes. But not this person! 🤡

> Perceived vibrancy can be wildly different even if the colors measured at the surface of the panel is same.

Oh okay, so we're firmly into snake oil territory now. Instruments say the colours are the same, but "perception" isn't.

The funniest thing is that you are sort of right - except that "perception" has nothing to do with the actual image quality. Why do you think glossy magazines existed? Humans just like flashy, shiny surfaces. They are perceived as expensive and high quality. Which is exactly why almost every shitty low-end laptop has a glossy layer to mask how awful their panels truly are. That's been the go-to tactic throughout the entire era of 150 nit TN panels being standard on laptops.

> So the sensors are inside the display as well. No problem in making them matte now, given the "extra glass" layer is unnecessary, right?

Except that you forgot that touchscreens are meant to be touched. You know, swiping gestures and all that. Glass makes that easy and pleasant. Cheap plastic or, worse, those tacky "matte" screen protectors? Horrible, your fingers literally stop in their tracks.

> I said the screens are already topped with glass or plastic even for matte, and you literally proved it for me with your videos

Incorrect. Nothing I linked "proves" that matte screens are topped with glass. And plastic film ≠ hard plastic layer (which is what's found on cheapest glossy displays).

> And yet it has literally never come up once anywhere, outside of matte vs glossy arguments for monitors. Even people clamoring for small phones massively outnumber any such people.

Really? Never came up? You must be quite young. The generation that grew up using resistive matte PDA touchscreens complains about it to this day.

> The panel manufacturing process is the same, they aren't going to spin up a whole other pipeline for glossy polarizing layers.

• That comparison video you've originally linked allegedly has exactly the same panels but with a "different finish" (let's roll with that for the sake of the argument). So either they're actually different panels, unlike what you claim, or... changing the "finish" type isn't that difficult after all. You know, like sticking a glass layer on top.
• If there's so much demand for glossy screens, why are they still running the matte pipeline at all?
• We've already established that the polarizing layer isn't glossy or matte. But anyway, according to you, matte surface is created by sticking an additional layer on top of glass. So... every display is originally glossy anyway, and it should be incredibly easy to convert it to matte.

Doesn't track.

> Are you seriously claiming that glass can't be matte? Are you just trolling at this point?

Yes, glass can be matte, and if grandma had wheels, she'd have been a wagon. It doesn't matter how many layers of "anti glare" you coat it with - it's still glass, it generates reflections. The only way for a panel to not be glossy is to not utilize glass at all.

> Yep, you're trolling.

Trolling so much that I've paid extra and ordered my previous laptop from a different country back in 2011 just to make sure I get a matte version because the local SKUs of that model only had glossy. All to troll one random on the internet a decade later. All my clients that specifically demanded a matte screen for their home and office setups I've built for them were trolling, too. It's a conspiracy against you! Not a wide preference for several objective reasons, not at all.

> No one with working eyes thinks this and this are the same.

Here is the Surface Pro 9 subpixel grid. What's wrong? Why is it like that? It's glossy! It's supposed to be crystal clear!

> Also "avid readers" of Notebookcheck would very much know they always point out the "graininess" of matte displays vs glossy ones, but it's already confirmed you're just trolling.

Yes, they also call it a "screen-door effect". Not having a lowest bidder display helps: my monitor definitely doesn't have that. But I've certainly seen ones that do. That doesn't mean this graininess is inherent to matte screens.

Ya the PVS-14s/31s were and still are annoying as hell. You can counterbalance them all you want. But moving around with a huge weight on the front of your helmet is annoying as shit, team Wendy or not.

My neck hurts just looking at that pic

Just lugging the little PVS-14s around for a few hours were a PITA on the neck...that thing looks horrendous.

Notice the end said it'd be going to non-light infantry in the future lol.

I feel like this would just be another unnecessary piece of heavy gear to haul around, that needs to be charged and maintained. That’s nearly impossible to do… example: see Iraq/Afghanistan.

Okay, please show me the java code controlling the 3D printer now :-) You see, it's possible but not easily feasable.

> Film. Here, watch a video that shows it coming off. That's some flexible glass...

Fine, it can be plastic as well. Happy? Does that change anything? Did the Macbook become magically matte all of a sudden?

> And here is another video showing an iMac's glass being removed. What's underneath? That's right, a matte panel...

That looks like matte to you? Since when do matte displays have razor sharp reflections?

And lol at linking literally 11 year old videos. If you haven't noticed, display tech has progressed quite a bit since then, and we used laminated displays now. Go ahead, use any modern smartphone, and see if there's any gap between the screen and your skin while touching it.

And as for peeling off layers, what exactly is up with all the "matte removal" processes available online?

Are these companies putting on "natively matte" panels, then putting glossy glass on it, and then again putting a matte coating on it?

> (Impossibly by definition, by the way, because one is glossy and another matte, but let's at least compare their stated specifications.)

Same colorspace, same brightness, same resolution, same refresh rate. What more do you want?

You seem desperate to grab at any tiny colorspace inaccuracy to justify the massive difference shown in vibrancy.

> Cool beans, I do too. And I don't want to switch off my ceiling light just so my screen is legible lmao.

Except I don't have to. I cant just tilt my screen away from light sources to completely eliminate reflections. But matte screens are still washed out.

> IPS, high contrast, above 90% sRGB coverage, low deltaE values. Again: I have yet to see this "washing out".

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Perceived vibrancy can be wildly different even if the colors measured at the surface of the panel is same. Do you even understand how matte works?

Basic physics: on a glossy surface, all light rays largely reflect off in a single direction, so if you angle it right, none of those reflections will ever reach you. But for matte surfaces, the reflections go all over the place. Regardless of how you angle it, there will always be some reflections coming to you, washing out the display.

And the video I linked originally gives a very good demonstration of how that turns out, and that's not the only comparison available.

> Yeah, because they use an additional anti-glare coating which tends to warp with age - remember Staingate? And I don't want to have to use maximum brightness, that depletes battery faster. Again something you should know from Notebookcheck.

I just used max brightness for the worst case scenario. In most cases even that's not required. You keep saying you're an "avid reader" of Notebookcheck, but then you'd be aware that Notebookcheck also says this in their Macbook reviews.

> CAPACITIVE TOUCHSCREEN. For fuck's sake! I love how you conveniently ignored the Wikipedia tidbit I linked.

Are you just spamming without reading now? I said the screens are already topped with glass or plastic even for matte, and you literally proved it for me with your videos, which means there's no barrier for matte displays getting capacitive input.

And the kicker? Here, from the very article you cited:

> Those for mobile devices are now being produced with 'in-cell' technology, such as in Samsung's Super AMOLED screens, that eliminates a layer by building the capacitors inside the display itself.

So the sensors are inside the display as well. No problem in making them matte now, given the "extra glass" layer is unnecessary, right?

> And yes, plenty of people have wanted a matte smartphone for years, because you DO use those outside a lot

And yet it has literally never come up once anywhere, outside of matte vs glossy arguments for monitors. Even people clamoring for small phones massively outnumber any such people.

> Oops, so it's still glossy, just less glossy.

Are you seriously claiming that glass can't be matte? Are you just trolling at this point?

> I guess people also buy gaming monitors for offices?

The panel manufacturing process is the same, they aren't going to spin up a whole other pipeline for glossy polarizing layers.

> Did. What difference am I supposed to be looking at?

Yep, you're trolling. No one with working eyes thinks this and this are the same.

Also "avid readers" of Notebookcheck would very much know they always point out the "graininess" of matte displays vs glossy ones, but it's already confirmed you're just trolling.

Only reply if you have actual arguments to make and not just spam nonsense in a cycle.

Comparing Apple to Facebook? Apple is clearly morally superior. Facebook is the tool that supremacists of all colours use to spread propaganda that leads to genocides. They refuse to hire local moderators in any meaningful capacity to deal with this stuff.

When it’s pointed out that their algorithms are driving division and hate, they externally put out a memo along the lines of “we’re aware of a situation, and will do our best” and internally about “yay! Growth!”.

> ...what do you think the outer polarizing layer is made out of?

Film. Here, watch a video that shows it coming off. That's some flexible glass...

And here is another video showing an iMac's glass being removed. What's underneath? That's right, a matte panel...

> You see discrepancies between LG panels and Samsung panels, not one Samsung panel vs another Samsung panel.

So first of all, even the panels of the same model have discrepancies - that's why calibration exists. (Another thing you'll see Notebookcheck point out regularly, if you pay attention.) Second, Samsung or LG make dozens, if not hundreds, of different panel models - and the same monitor can use different panels from the same manufacturer whose model number differs only by one letter yet means a considerable difference in specs. I'll ask you again: is there any data that shows that both of these monitors use the exact same panels? (Impossibly by definition, by the way, because one is glossy and another matte, but let's at least compare their stated specifications.)

> Yes, in an office scenario. I like to consume media on my devices, and I do that in comfort of my home, not office, where I do have control over placement of lighting.

Cool beans, I do too. And I don't want to switch off my ceiling light just so my screen is legible lmao.

> Provable false. What counts as "decent screen"? 500$? 1000$? 6000$? All of them will wash out the display, that's literally how matte works.

IPS, high contrast, above 90% sRGB coverage, low deltaE values. Again: I have yet to see this "washing out".

> Then I guess you should stop sitting out in direct sun, it will damage your panel either way.

... lol?

> Macbooks at max brightness are nowhere that reflective in office lighting.

Yeah, because they use an additional anti-glare coating which tends to warp with age - remember Staingate? And I don't want to have to use maximum brightness, that depletes battery faster. Again something you should know from Notebookcheck.

> Apple laptops were only one class I mentioned, where are the excuses for the others?

CAPACITIVE TOUCHSCREEN. For fuck's sake! I love how you conveniently ignored the Wikipedia tidbit I linked. And yes, plenty of people have wanted a matte smartphone for years, because you DO use those outside a lot, and until manufacturers like Samsung and Apple started sticking ridiculous 500+ nit displays (that you can't even set to max brightness manually for numerous reasons - they only go that high via ambient light sensor) on their phones to cope with that, using a smartphone in the sun was a pain. Again something you should know from Notebookcheck. Or, you know, just common sense.

> And Apple does make a matte version of their expensive monitor, so it's obviously not limited to "glass looks fancy".

"Every Pro Display XDR screen is engineered for extremely low reflectivity. And if you’re in an especially uncontrolled lighting environment, there’s an innovative matt option with nano‑texture glass."

Oops, so it's still glossy, just less glossy.

> If glass was that unnecessary they wouldn't have put it on in the first place. Of course, that's assuming the ridiculous notion of "panels being natively" matte is true in the first place.

> Because most people use them in offices. That's what drives it.

I guess people also buy gaming monitors for offices?

> Like I said, check the subpixel shots of glossy laptops and matte laptops. That alone should completely destroy the notion of "panels being natively matte and glossy just have glass over them".

Did. What difference am I supposed to be looking at?

> If glass was that unnecessary they wouldn't have put it on in the first place.

And they don't on matte screens.

> Wildly incorrect. You can't tell by simply touching the display that the glossy ones have a layer of glass (or plastic) on top, really?

...what do you think the outer polarizing layer is made out of? Do you really think the matte layer isn't glass?

Please, take a look at how screens are made before making such outlandish claims.

> I'm well aware of that. And are you aware of the fact that even the same laptop or monitor can source difference panels with "similar" specs that aren't the same? You claim to read Notebookcheck - they bring up that fact over and over.

And in those cases the panels are different, and come with different identifiers and very often display suppliers. You see discrepancies between LG panels and Samsung panels, not one Samsung panel vs another Samsung panel.

> Good luck with that when your lights are on the ceiling like they are in most cases - or when you are working outside/next to a window (which is very often the case with a laptop).

Yes, in an office scenario. I like to consume media on my devices, and I do that in comfort of my home, not office, where I do have control over placement of lighting.

> Except it's not washed out if you have a decent screen.

Provable false. What counts as "decent screen"? 500$? 1000$? 6000$? All of them will wash out the display, that's literally how matte works.

> I literally said they can be. But they have to be resistive, not capacitive. Capacitive tech needs the glass or plastic layer to work. Read up on how it functions. "A capacitive touchscreen panel consists of an insulator, such as glass, coated with a transparent conductor, such as indium tin oxide (ITO)."

Once again, on both matte and glossy displays the outer polarizing layer is glass. So nothing stops matte displays from being capacitive touch.

> ... is an example of when a display actually has matte "coating" on top of the capacitive glass layer.

So if one is to use your logic, the Lenovo has matte panel, over which they put a glossy glass layer, over which they put a matte layer once again? Do I really need to point out how ridiculous this is?

> Get back to me when you build a capacitive display without the glass layer, you will be rich overnight.

Lenovo does. Go ask them. And from what I know they aren't exclusive in that either.

> Uh-huh - except matte screens do it to a much smaller extent and only on dark backgrounds. Glossy ones like on my MacBook do it regardless of background and lighting, and it's extremely tiring on the eyes.

Then I guess you should stop sitting out in direct sun, it will damage your panel either way. Macbooks at max brightness are nowhere that reflective in office lighting.

> You're joking, right? People have been demanding a matte MacBook for ages. When you do actual work on it for a full day instead of being a pretentious "graphics designer" playing with fonts for half an hour, the reflections become extremely exhausting. The reason Apple isn't doing it is because matte screens look "cheap" - glass looks expensive and fancy.

Apple laptops were only one class I mentioned, where are the excuses for the others?

And Apple does make a matte version of their expensive monitor, so it's obviously not limited to "glass looks fancy".

> Yet almost all desktop monitors, even the very expensive ones, are matte. I wonder why...

Because most people use them in offices. That's what drives it.

> As an avid Notebookcheck reader myself: citation needed.

Like I said, check the subpixel shots of glossy laptops and matte laptops. That alone should completely destroy the notion of "panels being natively matte and glossy just have glass over them".

> That's not as far from the truth as you think. The aforementioned MacBooks have been consistently offering some of the best displays on the market in terms of resolution, colour accuracy, and colorspace coverage - and all of them have glass. Those specs aren't the consequence of having glass, but they do skew the statistics in glossy screens' favour.

If glass was that unnecessary they wouldn't have put it on in the first place. Of course, that's assuming the ridiculous notion of "panels being natively" matte is true in the first place.