Waste deep. I thought they were buried in trash for a few seconds

It's kinda-sorta both. Most European fighting manuals don't really work with forms as you would know them from Eastern martial arts, it's mostly scenarios. The text says "If your opponent does X then you do Y" in varying degrees of detail and the picture shows what that's supposed to look like.

The problem with Talhoffer is that it's essentially only images and no text which makes it harder to interpret. Also it's still medieval, and medieval art doesn't follow modern rules of depth which doesn't help either.

Talhoffer shows judicial duels because that's what he knew, that's what he was qualified to talk about. Other manuals depict fighting in the context of self defense or a training hall or a duel of honor depending on where the qualifications of the author were and how they wanted to present themselves.

Neat! That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks. (From manual I was assuming they were techniques, like teaching a form. Not like circumstances that might occur.)

Maybe it's because I've been reading these treatises and attempting to reconstruct the techniques in them for a long time but it makes sense to me. In that image the man has (somehow) managed to neutralize the woman's weapon (possibly by wrapping it around his mace or arm) and gotten her close enough that he could sweep her off her feet and pull her into the hole where she's defenseless.

Also, yeah, that might result in a broken neck. That was the goal. Judicial duels were fought until one side was either dead or had given up. They were only called when there was a stalemate in a case where the death penalty was on the table, this wasn't something people did for petty grievances. Especially since they believed that God would grant victory to the person who had been telling the truth. That meant the loser hadn't been telling the truth, which means they had been lying under oath. Which could be punishable by death.

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Yeah, judicial duels were a common thing throughout the middle ages. Many combat manuals and some of the weirder weapons of the time were designed for duels and not general combat.

Yes, commonly wife and husband.

Thanks very much, I will check them out.

Thanks, my interests lie mainly in Europe but range from Ancient Greece to things the present day.

The one with the most egregious lack of sense has the woman upside down. I'm also a clinical massage therapist for the last few decades, there's no way I know of to make physical sense of that picture. The lady is looking at a broken neck if the 2 of them so much as squirm wrong let alone fight.

Well, the guy who wrote the treatise fought judicial duels as a job so I'm not sure if there's a whole lot of trolling going on here. That doesn't mean something like this happened often or regularly but I wouldn't discount it happening at all. It might be a way to even the playing field so to speak. The woman gets the freedom of movement and can play out her range but since the man is standing in a hole his center of gravity is so low he can't be grappled effectively.

Required reading at my fencing school.

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I've seen quite a few and my dad made me do martial arts because of my size, that's why I had to ask. It looked more like someone in the 15th was trolling than anything someone would actually do. Like under any circumstance, considering the kinesics and logistics. Extended face down in a hole, in combat? Thought I was having a flashback.

It's funny that the article was trying to insinuate that it was wife vs husband. Also, imagine getting dragged into the hole that was given to you as a handicap?

Check out Kings and Generals, Crash Course History, Invicta, the Great War, and Historia Civilis on Youtube.

None, this isn't a self defense situation, this is highly ritualized trial by combat. Treatises for "real" combat or self defense exist as well but obviously they look a bit different. They don't start with one of the combatants in a hole, for example.

Hey there! I HIGHLY recommend A History of the World Map by Map and a WWII Map by Map. You will absolutely love them!

Great ask! Hoping to find something on this as well. Maybe post this on tomorrow's thread? Goes up around 7 AM EST.

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I was wondering if anyone has good resources for the study of the individual German states before and after German Unification. I especially would like information regarding how the states view each other and the stereotypes that come with them. I originally got interested in this topic when reading, "Storm of Steel" by Ernst Yünger. He specifically refers to the stereotypes of other Germans from different States. As an young country as of 1914 I would imagine each of the States had heavy individualism from the others. Open to discussion and specific sources. I would have made this it's own post but it was removed when I tried. Thanks.

Hey there, my Slovenian friend highlybrecommended that you check out The Land Between: A History of Slovenia by Oto Luthar!

Objectively, which of these pictures shows an effective technique for any situation you'd likely experience needing actual self defense? Serious question.