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Other than Cuba & Brazil, are there any other Latin American countries that experienced a movement of enslaved or formerly enslaved Africans to West Africa?

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I think it's more a point of he was a hard but fair leader. Half the ship left with him during the mutiny, almost certain death, but they went with him anyway. Needless to say he somehow managed to overcome those ridiculous odds.

The rebellion was in the face of wild corruption, the "hiding under the bed" thing was very much a myth, there is no actual proof of that. It was likely a story made up in the moment to destroy his reputation, but nothing about his character and experiences hints that he would have done that.

It was hard times back then, he was a loyal servant to the motherland and didn't compromise his ethics throughout his storied career. Gotta respect that.

Possibly. I've only ever seen the word used in relation to medlars, which involves the same thing - letting the fruit go overripe and soft. Would like to try breadfruit.

> Ansenberg I believe you might mean Eisenberg

https://fabricut.com/fabric/1232901/eisenberg/01

>Forced conversions were pretty rare for Muslims (that's just not a thing they do as a rule, two arguments: the Quran says not to do so, and non Muslim can be a source of cash with special taxes).

You'll see some posts on /r/askhistorians about this too. But one other kind of obvious reason that the western idea of mass forced conversion, or conversion by the sword, just doesn't pan out is that often Muslims were a small minority in an area. You can't just go mass convert everyone when they have a 100 to 1 advantage over you. So it rarely happened, but there were governmental and institutional advantages to converting. You could get better patronage. There were specific additional taxes for non believers. You had a right to participate in conquest and gain land, etc. So there were lots of good practical reasons to convert.

This distrusts, and some earlier Muslims people retaining benefits only to their own class, and denying them to the new converts, manifested in the Shi'a/Sunni split. A lot of the later converting groups felt that they weren't getting their fare share of opportunities and saw Ali as willing to address that. It's not the total explanation, but part of how the split developed.

The ones who were wrong never made it.

So we are in agreement, Tahitian women are in fact sirens

Some of what you'd expect, there were Jewish and Christian communities there. The Christian community is actually kind of interesting b/c they were a Gnostic sect that believed there was kind of a heist to move Jesus out of his tomb and that's the version of Christianity that Muhammad was familiar with so it shows up in hadith a lot. There were Zoroastrians. These are the groups usually described as dhimmi.

There were also pre Abrahamic religions, like the Yazidi we heard about with ISIS. There were some of the cults from Roman times still hanging out,. And besides Zoroastrianism, there were some other religious groups from Persia, like the Manichean. There was even some Buddhism.

But there was a lot of idol worship. It's stuff that was varied, but would include household/tribal gods, ancestor worship, and animism. Before Islam, the Kabba was actually surrounded by idols from all these different groups and was already an area of regional worship.

Basically there was a lot of stuff, as you would expect from an area that served as kind of a crossroads of the ancient world. They got beliefs from the east and west going through. Some beliefs were adopted, some had parts taken and amalgamated into new religions or combined with older religious traditions.

Karen Armstrong is a popular writer and has a short history of Islam that you might like.

To add to the other comment, a lot of Middle Eastern Christians were (and still are) Nestorian and Miaphysite Christians, rather than Chalcedonian, which is what the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches are often called before their schism in 1054.

Nestorianism, today represented by the Assyrian Church of the East, is the belief that Jesus Christ was two distinct persons, one divine and one human. It was condemned as heretical at the Council of Ephesus in 451 and many Nestorians fled Byzantine lands to the Sassanid Empire, because the largely Zoroastrian Sassanids were not interested in enforcing Christian orthodoxy.

Miaphysitism, today represented by the Copts, Armenian Apostolic Church, and the Syria Orthdoox Church, is the belief that Jesus Christ was both fully human and fully divine, in one nature.

The Chalcedonians (which today comprises Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and most Protestants) take the position that Jesus was one person with two natures, divine and human.

This differences might seem small, but they led to a lot of bloodshed in Western Asia and North Africa in the 5th and 6th centuries. Further hardening the differences is that the Chalcedonians believed that Greek and Latin were the only acceptable liturgical languages, whereas a number of Nestorian and Miaphysite Christians used Coptic, Assyrian, Armenian, or Syriac instead.

It is worth noting that a number of Byzantine writers tended to assume that Islam was a form of Nestorian or Miaphysite Christianity as did the Catholic chronicler, Guillaume of Tyr.

I lived in St. Vincent and the Grenadines for 2 years. At the botanical gardens they is a breadfruit tree that is a direct descendant of one of the first breadfruit tree Capt. Bligh brought to the island. But then, I suppose they all are. Anyway. Breadfruit is delicious

> forced conversion, ethnic cleansing etc. - would come later.

That's not really something Muslim states do. There are massacre in war times, there are individual war bands who harass minorities. There are heavy discriminations (ghetto like conditions, special tax and humiliating laws). But mass conversion and ethnic cleansing is more of a Iberian Christian thing than something Muslim states did historically (I'm talking about antiquity and medieval period here, 18-19th centuries are a totally different thing and are more closely related to nationalism than anything in the case of Turkey for example).

It's complex but in short, the main tenets of Islam weren't a new thing in the region. Monotheism, the Abrahamic god, all those were known. And Christianity wasn't united at all, there were a lot of variations between doctrines. So it appeared as another Abrahamic faith, it was familiar. Then the Arab Muslim won militarily very quickly and brought stability to what was a war zone between Rome and Persia.

And finally, the Muslim empire were relatively tolerant of other faiths. But if you're not Muslim you have to pay a tax. So you got a faith that isn't that far from your own, their empire is successful... and if you stay Christian/Zoroastrian you have to pay... It took time but gradually populations converted on their own.

Forced conversions were pretty rare for Muslims (that's just not a thing they do as a rule, two arguments: the Quran says not to do so, and non Muslim can be a source of cash with special taxes). They integrated local populations which drifted toward Islam on their own. Again it wasn't immediate, Egypt was still mostly Christian in the 13th century (and still is 10% Christian today).

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Then post mutiny they took a few beauties to their remote island and promptly engaged in an orgy of murder over the beauties.

Bligh was a skilled navigator and a Capt Cook alum. I'm sure he was a hardass but the man knew the sea.

The Bligh Waters in northern Viti Levu, Fiji are named for him.

Currently living in Mangilao. Hafa Adai!!!

But yeah, a single breadfruit tree could support more than a family. I can’t go through all the breadfruit in my yard. Makes great knockoff bbq in the slow cooker with bbq sauce, same taste and texture of pulled pork

You are right, but I think what's in your head is way more formal than what went down.

According to Rum: a distilled history of colonial Australia

https://www.amazon.com.au/Rum-Distilled-History-Colonial-Australia/dp/1460759427?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=705a0906-9c38-43a7-9c5a-00dcc982e27e

It sounds like it was a pretty rag-tag group of "soliders" that were so drunk they had trouble stumbling up the hill to arrest him

It was definitely organised by a cartel though who had strong financial motivation to keep rum flowing in the colony

I don't know of any widespread trade of salt in pre Columbian Midwest. However, salt is readily available across most of it from my understanding. There are several salt mines around the great lakes currently, the biggest I believe being under lake Erie. If I'm not mistaken there was also a lot of salt brought with the glaciers, which is why so many rivers in Illinois have consistent salt licks along their banks. I don't know nearly as much about the plains regions west of the Mississippi, but would guess that it's similar.

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I was aware of the access in Illinois, but I didn't think that would give the kind of quantity that might allow export as far as, say, modern Nebraska?

Thanks, I'll check those out.

I didnt know Cpt Bligh had two mutinies and a rebellion under his belt.

at some point, he has to be the problem

Yes. There's a great book you might want to check out called Masters of Empire about the Anishinaabe people, they include the Ojibwe, Odawa, Algonquin, Mississaguas among others. The book is by Michael McDonnell. It's a fascinating book that explains their extensive trade networks, their conflicts with their neighbors and how they played the English, French and Iriquois off each other to protect their interests.

But they're trading networks went all the way down the Mississippi and to the coast. They'd have access to salt from the salt mines in Southern Illinois and the various salt creeks like the other poster mentioned, but also from the Hudson bay and hypothetically, if it had been necessary, from the gulf coast.

There's a new book that came out last year called Seeing Red by Michael Witgen that picks up after the period described in Masters of Empire that looks good too, if you're interested in this area of the world.

Here's a great talk with McDonnel at the James Madison lecture series. https://youtu.be/bodjl3rXWxw

Also, if anyone's interested, I made a whole video about Ned Young. You can find it at r/FunSizeHistory 😁