Recent comments in /f/history

QuickSpore t1_j7cy867 wrote

Reply to comment by osberend in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

The modern spelling of lede is super recent. When I was in my journalism program in the 1990s it was almost always “bury the lead.” It’s only after about 2000 that the industry switched over to the lede spelling.

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Ok-disaster2022 t1_j7cy5qn wrote

Reply to comment by duncan345 in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

They've actually needed to start updating coordinates of the markers due to continental drift in some places. They can be off by centimeters which can be ginormous legal fights.

The idea of markers to track boundaries goes back thousands of years. There are Biblical laws about not removing boundary markers.

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moonstrous t1_j7cx353 wrote

Reply to Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

I know from my own research that this practice was used as far north as Russian Alaska, notably with plaques buried at Sitka in 1799. Whether the Russian Empire had the means to enforce such claims was another matter; as the costs of their colonial ventures mounted, Russian trading companies eventually abandoned much of their territory in modern day California and British Columbia.

Frontier explorers would sometimes leave similar messages by landmarks to mark milestones along their journey, although these were usually carved into stone rather than forged in metal. Alexander Mackenzie famously left a marker near the Pacific coast when his expedition became the first north of the Rio Grande to cross the continental divide (beating Lewis & Clark by over a decade).

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My-other-user-name t1_j7cqluf wrote

Reply to comment by whyenn in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

Moving USGS benchmarks is very much a Federal offense.

https://www.lsi-inc.us/is-it-illegal-to-move-a-survey-marker/

Moving survey staking and other markers depends on the situation and state.

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thisissb t1_j7cpbvr wrote

Reply to Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator

My last ask lead me down some great paths so hoping someone might have a good suggestion for this.

I am looking for mythology or ancient stories related to the stars or space. When/How did constellations get their names? Tales to explain events in the cosmos like comets or eclipses. Are there any good books or documentaries out there on this subject.

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GavUK t1_j7cp6zp wrote

Reply to comment by jesse4788 in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

>dieu et Mon droit

This is the motto of our Monarch (UK and Commonwealth). You can read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieu_et_mon_droit

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whyenn OP t1_j7cotx1 wrote

Reply to comment by jaredfoglesmydad in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

Thanks, it's mentioned here in wikipedia:

>At each point, a tin or copper plate bearing the French royal arms was nailed to a tree. Below, an inscribed leaden plate was buried, declaring the claims of France. This was a traditional European mode of marking territory

...explaining why the title of the post asks about Europe as well as North America. But it doesn't have a source attached for the "traditional European mode" claim.

But yeah, that's great evidence establishing that it least happened. It's even referred to as "The 'Lead Plate" Expedition."

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whyenn OP t1_j7cnqzj wrote

Reply to comment by jesse4788 in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

I read the wiki on the U.S. Public Land Survey system in response to u/duncan345's comment, and apparently moving (or removing) property markers is still techincally a Federal offense in the U.S. (of which Picton, Ontario is admittedly not a part.) But if that isn't still being used as such, that might be of interest to someone somewhere.

Do you remember the dimensions of it?

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whyenn OP t1_j7cmhoy wrote

Reply to comment by johnpseudonym in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

So a hundred years ago a form of this was still being used? That's fascinating. There's got to be some sort of documentation of this on the internet somewhere.

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whyenn OP t1_j7cm8qc wrote

Reply to comment by duncan345 in Lead Plates and Land Claims in North America and Europe: When did the practice begin of burying lead plates to establish ownership of land, and why did it die out, and was it ever used successfully in a court of law to establish ownership? by whyenn

That's fantastic. Thanks for the new term. Interesting to know a form of this is still used.

I just googled "survey pins" which led me to "property pins" which led me to "survey markers" but none of them mention a historical use of lead plates.

I've gone to Wiki for the Public Land Survey System which says that they used wooden posts, trees, and rock piles for establishing "legally binding markers" but the burying of lead plates isn't mentioned.

Appreciated, this is definitely pertinent even if not the exact thing.

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