Recent comments in /f/history

Bentresh t1_iqudyf6 wrote

No, he's right on the money. There are very noticeable differences in how archaeology was done between the early 1800s and the early 1900s. Early explorers like Ferlini made an absolute mess of sites in Egypt and Sudan, as did archaeologists like Amelineau. The work of later scholars like Petrie and Winlock is still dissatisfactory by modern standards, but it was a huge improvement.

The Turin collection is all well and good, but archaeology is not antiquarianism – collecting objects is not the end goal. The collection was acquired with a considerable amount of destruction and is no little source of frustration to Egyptologists today. Take the Turin king list, for example, which was found intact but thanks to Drovetti's carelessness is now a jumble of tattered fragments that Egyptologists have been trying to reconstruct for decades.

Jason Thompson's trilogy on the history of Egyptology is well worth a read, as I don't think most people realize how far Egyptology has come in a relatively short amount of time.

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Tiako t1_iqu48mm wrote

I suppose as a pure adventure story it is compelling but that puts it at about the level of Felix Baumgartner jumping out of a space ship in terms of historical value. The peopling of the Pacific islands was a very settled question when Heyerdahl had his expeditions, and those expeditions provided not a whit of actual evidence to support his theory.

He was also more than a little racist towards Polynesians, the impetus of his theory was not far off "these savages couldn't have possible build these monuments".

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DiffusedReflection t1_iqu3ffz wrote

"One shudders to think how these objects might have fared had their discovery occurred two or even just one century prior to Carter’s 1922 field season."

While this makes for good sensationalism, the Donati and Drovetti collections acquired between 1750 and 1820 formed the basis for the largest collection of Egyptian artefacts outside Cairo (Museo Egizio in Turin, established in 1824). Archaeology and Egyptology wasn't new-- although it was rough, it was rough when Carter and Reisner were doing it, too. And stratigraphy was in use well before Reisner. 

This might be clarified in the book, but I dislike how he misrepresents things in the article just to heighten the drama.

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JohnnyEnzyme t1_iqu2rvw wrote

Hmm, I thought Heyerdahl was more of a mixed bag.. exaggerating and manipulating facts on one hand, while taking on some pretty major risks in his voyages, and overall, bringing a bunch of attention to interesting facets of cultural history and so forth.

I haven't read up on him in many years, though, so I'm in little position to debate.

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Tiako t1_iqtxv44 wrote

Yeah, I am largely but not entirely ignorant of Egyptology's history and I was not aware of this dust up, I think it can be overestimated how far this is known outside of Egyptologists.

(Heyerdahl on the other hand was a complete charlatan, absolutely nothing of value gained from his work)

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JohnnyEnzyme t1_iqts9e0 wrote

Still, for nincompoops like myself who only know the bare facts about Carter's work and discovery, I found it quite interesting getting that deeper (and rougher) dive, and learning about the rivalry of sorts between he and Reisner.

Methinks the story has potential, too, not unlike an Amadeus film scenario, but one in which Mozart and Salieri really *did* hold contempt for each other. Perhaps a bit of a Thor Heyerdahl situation too, in which the real-life Thor had some qualities of flim-flammery and not holding up scientific principles.

/u/xv433

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elmonoenano t1_iqs4v7b wrote

Things like that are to multicausal to lay at the feet of any one thing. The cassettes were important in giving people a figure to focus on, but there wouldn't have needed to be a figure if there wasn't so much dissatisfaction. If the Shah wasn't so flagrant in his profligacy, if he wasn't in power due to the US assistance, if the SAVAK weren't so brutal, etc, would people have looked for an alternative to the Shah? I would say the cassettes were more important to establishing the Ayatollah as an alternative to the Shah than being responsible for the revolution itself. I think the Shah's mismanagement was the driving reason for that. How it played out is a different story.

(For people who haven't heard about this aspect of the Revolution there were cassettes of the Ayatollah's sermons that were widely distributed throughout Iran before the revolution. One of the ironies was that the US's support of the Shah had allowed the Shah to put in a modern telephone system which allowed Khomeini to call in and deliver these sermons with enough clarity that they could be recorded, duped and distributed.)

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