Recent comments in /f/history

random2187 t1_ja50fv2 wrote

Probably not since the Sumerian pantheon is from well before Indo-European migration which spread the those figures throughout Eurasia, though there are synchronisms later in Mesopotamia history and at least one inscription which directly invoked Agni. There’s also a very loose theory that Harappan/Indus River Valley Civilization and the Sumerians were related, though there is no real evidence to back this up as of yet. There’s currently an ancient dna project testing if the IRVC and Sumerians shared ancestry, and if that’s confirmed then there is a possibility of synchronisms

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AngryBlitzcrankMain t1_ja500u7 wrote

Did they avoid them? Are there many indigenous people of Indian ocean islands? Or South America? Or are there a few isolated groups living in areas that are hard to reach and thus were spared the ethnic cleansing groups that lived in other areas faced. USA was colonized fully and the natives were slowly moved from east to the west as colonization continued while their way of life was slowly but steadily destroyed.

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foospork t1_ja4zzr9 wrote

I browse reddit on mobile. Most of these articles are unreadable on mobile.

I assume a lot of folks are like me and hope that some kind computer user has scraped the article into the comments.

Of course, everyone should have the sense to refrain from commenting when they have no knowledge of what’s actually in the article.

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DifferentOpinionHere t1_ja4zg2q wrote

The idea that the Treaty of Versailles was too harsh on Germany is a myth. I'm more inclined to blame the outbreak of World War II on other factors, such as:

  1. The Great Depression, basically unrelated to World War I/the Treaty of Versailles, devastated the world economy and, when economic times are tough, people turn to radical political leadership, like the Nazis (there was even clamoring for dictatorship in the United States during this time period...see the 1933 film Gabriel Over the White House, which depicts the President of the United States being possessed by an angel and becoming a "benevolent" dictator to deal with the Depression and rampant gangsterism).
  2. The stab-in-the-back myth (also known as the "Big Lie"), which stated that the German military had not been defeated during World War I, only betrayed into surrendering by the Jews, Freemasons, and social democrats, was pervasive in German culture after World War I. Even social democratic German President Friedrich Ebert contributed to the odious lie by welcoming returning troops with "No enemy has vanquished you." The stab-in-the-back myth was especially promoted by Erich Ludendorff (former co-commander of the German military with Paul von Hindenburg and former co-military dictator of Germany with Hindenburg) and Adolf Hitler, who both led the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923.
  3. The United States' rejection of Wilsonianism after World War I meant that the United States would retreat back to the Western Hemisphere and ignore European and Middle Eastern affairs. The U.S. refused to join the League of Nations (and refuse to establish a protectorate over the new country of Armenia, meaning that that new state would be wiped off the map by Turkey) and, with Great Britain tending to its own empire, left France as the only leader of the world. The United States would learn the value of Wilsonianism with the Second World War and become a founding member of the United Nations and NATO.
  4. The Treaty of Lausanne with Turkey following the "Turkish War of Independence" essentially legalized genocide. Turkey would get off the hook for its horrific genocides against the Armenians, Assyrians, and Ottoman Greeks during World War I, inspiring Adolf Hitler. Only proper punishment against Turkey could've prevented this unfortunate outcome of the "Turkish War of Independence."
  5. The new democratic German government, the Weimar Republic, had somewhat weak democratic institutions and was fraught with political violence between the left and the right.

One reason for the "Treat of Versailles was too harsh" myth has to do with the "there were no bad guys in World War I" myth. In reality, the Central Powers were committing atrocities at almost every turn. Germany had its reprehensible Rape of Belgium and its use of Belgians Poles as slave labor. The Austro-Hungarian Empire and Bulgaria committed genocide against the Serbs. The Ottoman Empire's nightmarish genocides against the Armenians, Assyrians, and Ottoman Greeks have already been touched on. The Allies of World War I had no such record of mass crimes against humanity. Well, Czarist Russia committed some cruel atrocities, but, by mid-1917 (with the democratic February Revolution in Russia, not to be confused with the communist October Revolution in that country), the Allies of World War I were arguably more democratic than the Allies of World War II (who had to rely on vicious dictatorships like the Soviet Union and China to do a lot of the heavy lifting).

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GSilky t1_ja4zfou wrote

I think it was the influence of a more cosmopolitan outlook, it was certainly a first, afaik, but that is also an over gloss, it was more complicated of course, but that is the traditional textbook take. I personally think that it depends on the time and place, while mercy has been developed by today, it's always been present in individuals, there are surprisingly modern examples of this type of behavior, I would think that the knowledge of past behavior like being discussed was also not necessarily the norm, but those bizarre headline grabbing scenarios of today.

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random2187 t1_ja4z3of wrote

The actual translation from the inscriptions on foundation bricks and nails is “e-ninnu-an-im-mi^mushen -babbar-babbar-ra-ne” where e is temple, ninny is fifty, an-im-mi^mushen is the anzu bird (associated with storms and chaos), babbar is white, and ra-ne are grammatical elements meaning his. So the name of the temple literally translates to “his temple of fifty white anzu birds.” But that’s kind of a mouthful so most people just use enninu which is the temple-fifty portion or call it the white thunderbird temple which is the anzu-babbar part. Currently in grad school learning Sumerian and we got to hold and translate some of the foundation pegs with that inscription!

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Doctor_Impossible_ t1_ja4ypi0 wrote

>By crushing it under the weight of the treaty of Versailles

They didn't.

>I would go on to say the Allies should have been subsidizing Germany's economy in the late 20s and early 30s

They did. Germany received about 35 billion marks in loans, almost all of it from the US.

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