Recent comments in /f/history

Rob71322 t1_ja5i0n4 wrote

Maybe, but the west was also too lax on enforcement. In 1936, the Nazis tested the UK and France by re-militarizing the Rhineland. Even Hitler ater admitted that had the west responded forcefully, he would've had to turn tail and retreat. In essence, it was a bluff and when the west didn't react, it emboldened him to go further.

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random2187 t1_ja5hoit wrote

We really can't say since there's no way to know how the original speakers pronounced things. We can somewhat confidently restore what Akkadian sounded like due to comparative semetic studies and their syllabic spelling in writing. However, Sumerian is a language isolate with no known related languages for comparison, their spelling was mostly logographic (think chinese, a single symbol representing an idea), and the only way we know the associated sounds is through Akkadian who didn't have the same sounds to be able to accurately represent how Sumerian was pronounced. For example it's believed that Sumerian had several o sounds that Akkadian is simply unable to render, and instead get represented as the same u sounds despite the variety that originally existed. You'll usually hear it pronounced with a soft g today but that has nothing to do with how it was originally pronounced

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jamesp420 t1_ja5hk5a wrote

I guess it's no small blessing that we have those Akkadian translations then. They sound like something akin to a Mesopotamian "Rosetta Stone" in function. And awesome, thank you! I'm slightly familiar with Enlil at least, though only in passing, as well as the Anzu, but I don't know this story. Much appreciated.

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Devil-sAdvocate t1_ja5hbmt wrote

> The Sumerians were possibly the oldest civilization in the world and the first to establish religion and a code of law.

Other firsts include: invented the first form of writing, the first known number system with place value was the Mesopotamian base 60 system, the first to develop the turning wheel- which is a device which allowed them to mass-produce pottery, and they invented the plow.

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BrobdingnagLilliput t1_ja5h5ij wrote

> Germany was being punished as if they were the sole instigator and agressor of WWI

This is the correct answer. France, Britain, and the US entered the war on the side of the nation that assassinated the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne. Germany was hardly at fault for supporting their ally in a war against a terrorist state.

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ArkyBeagle t1_ja5gtrk wrote

There's a third prong - the Junkers ( Prussian big landowners with a longstanding , serious military culture ) based leadership class died out. Paul von Hindenburg was one of the last of them.

That led to a major power vacuum, and SFAIK, historians will use a power vacuum in explanations every time.

Ditto Russia. The enfeeblement, isolation and stubborn insistence on doubling down on absolute monarchy of Nicolas II contributed to that disaster.

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me_irl_irl_irl_irl t1_ja5fv6c wrote

I honestly wonder how much random religious stuff we'll keep randomly discovering. Throughout civilization it seems we've just always searched for some explanation of nature, and these are the ways it manifested. Probably many more weird ancient religious tributes that have no link to modern religion that are yet to be discovered

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random2187 t1_ja5eihl wrote

I mean the only reason we can translate it is because the Akkadians (who really started migrating into the region from the Levant ~2300 BCE) made these long lexical lists so that they could learn Sumerian too. We were able to decipher Akkadian and then Akkadian allowed us to decipher Sumerian, though there's still a lot of work to do/being done and our understanding of Sumerian is far from perfect.

There's definitely a lot of information on the gods including their myths, how they were worshiped, what purviews and symbols they were associated with, though not from the foundation deposits I'm talking about. Those are really basic and the one I'm referencing just reads "For Ningirsu, strong hero of Enlil, Gudea, lord of Lagas, has made the old things appear splendidly, he has built his temple-of-fifty-white-anzu-birds for him, he has returned it to its place for him." If you're interested in Ningirsu's association with the anzu bird, and his epithet hero of Enlil, and really his main myth, here's a half way decent translation https://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/texts/retellings/theftdestiny.htm

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bubb4h0t3p t1_ja5c69j wrote

>Brest-Litovsk

Well the civil war was already ongoing but ultimately splitting Poland with Hitler, and before that seizure of Azerbaijan and Georgia caucuses, occupation of the Baltic countries, invasion of Ukraine, Polish-Soviet war, and invasion of Finland etc even before the invasion of the Soviet Union sounds pretty revanchist to me

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TheBattler t1_ja5bfxa wrote

So like, the Eastern Mediterranean especially in the time after Alexander was super religious syncretic. The Greeks didn't posit Zeus as superior to Amun due to their conquest of Egypt, they took a more practical route to integrate into the existing Egyptian systems by equating Zeus to Amun and worshipping them as the same deity.

The obvious exception were the Jews, who became a little more ethnically closed off in opposition to the polytheism around them. You start to see writers of other ethnicities like Manetho around them talk about how strange and stupid their religion was. That's kind of a proto-antisemitism.

Eventually, you had the Romans come long and conquer the whole Mediterranean but maintaining the syncretic religions as long as their subjects acknowledged the Roman Emperor as divine. This wasn't going to fly in Judaism. You see kind of an escalation where the Romans suppress Jewish religion like destroying their Temple and Jews looking towards the Romans enemies like the Persians for help in gaining their autonomy (and who doesn't want autonomy from a militaristic Empire?). Pretty soon the Jews are viewed as subsersive elements within the Empire who collaborate with the enemy, which should sound kind of familiar.

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Any-Cry-5184 t1_ja5aqoc wrote

Forgive me if I’m wrong, haven’t really researched the Treaty of Versailles in a while, but wasn’t it a big factor in starting the German Depression? I mean, didn’t they owe so much money their currency was just basically decimated?

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jamesp420 t1_ja59sac wrote

That is super cool. Thats also a really cool temple name. It's astonishing to me that after all this time, Sumerian can still be taught, learned and read. I truly wish I had known about this kind of thing when deciding my life trajectory as a teen. Do the inscriptions have any more information about the god? I've read a bit on Sumerian history and mythology, but I don't recall seeing much of anything about Ningirsu.

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