Recent comments in /f/history
wittor t1_jaaf6v4 wrote
Reply to comment by HegemonNYC in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
There are many ways to define a species depending on what you are trying to explain. The idea that a species is composed of all individuals that can successfully interbreed is a simplification used for basic learning purposes and is expected to be understood as an approximation to a more complete theory.
[deleted] t1_jaaf5mc wrote
Reply to comment by wittor in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
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StillAFelon t1_jaaf2ar wrote
Reply to comment by Lesbaru in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Clan of the Cave Bears isn't too far off...the rest of the series is just smut though. We'll written smut, but smut nonetheless
[deleted] t1_jaaexu3 wrote
Reply to comment by Poes-Lawyer in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
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Muzzerduzzer t1_jaaewv8 wrote
Reply to comment by Cupnoole in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
I think a lot would. But there's a reason I'm not allowed to teach Sunday school anymore lol. There's a lot of fear of losing ones self worth and purpose if it's built on the idea of being unique and something that goes beyond science.
Musk-Order66 t1_jaaenul wrote
Reply to comment by Loki11910 in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Hey I’m 3rd Generation European-American… I’m a night owl. Medications don’t seem to work to keep me awake during the day and active at night.
I have epic light sensitivity and see very well in the dark.
… can I blame it on my Neanderthal night hunter genes!?!
wittor t1_jaadyqn wrote
Reply to comment by SPYK3O in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Those are more basal populations with more admixture, i think the present distribution of their genes is lower than expected when compared with those populations because most of those hybrid populations were assimilated by incoming waves of migration of sapiens from outside Europe with no or little admixture.
Cupnoole t1_jaadcvn wrote
Reply to comment by Muzzerduzzer in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
In this specific instance I think the group that you are speaking of will be quite fond of that proposition. Most of them has been rationalizing Neanderthal as just another kinds of human race, not a distinct human species.
[deleted] t1_jaad6u8 wrote
wittor t1_jaaczwv wrote
Reply to comment by PerformanceNow in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Consensus is basically a synonym for textbook simplifications that hardly match the state of any academic discipline.
Unfortunately, most of the nuances on archeology are lost between school books and cheap speculation in popular books.
fruityboots t1_jaacvy2 wrote
Reply to comment by Poes-Lawyer in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Homo heidelbergensis
HanseaticHamburglar t1_jaacri7 wrote
Reply to comment by HegemonNYC in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
It started that way but its becoming more scientific as we understand DNA.
Manatees are closer to elephants than whales but i don't think scientists 150 years ago could have drawn those conclusions. And there are countless examples of reclassification based on new evidence, and to some extent that goes beyond phenotypic expressions.
Poes-Lawyer t1_jaac82j wrote
Reply to comment by FreesiaAlbaa in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Do we know what the first species of Homo was? Presumably that was the first one to expand beyond Africa?
04221970 t1_jaac4ew wrote
Reply to comment by Lesbaru in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
This assumes there was consistent and real conflict between the two populations.
Lesbaru t1_jaabljz wrote
Reply to comment by OptimalCrew7992 in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Someone more talented than me needs to write a movie script or book about this. Move over Montagues and Capulets.
The_WASPiest t1_jaab70f wrote
Reply to Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
Hypothesis: part of the reason the United States has survived as long as it has is its two-party system. Unlike in a one-party or autocratic state, when one major party in this country collapses (as when the Whig party collapsed circa 1850 or the Republican party split disastrously in 1912), the other major party is always there to step in and provide stability and continued governance — even if their policies are mediocre or awful, they at least keep things going.
Thoughts?
smashkraft t1_jaa9y57 wrote
Reply to comment by HegemonNYC in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
I think this article has an interesting, nuanced take.
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/are-neanderthals-same-species-as-us.html
​
A few interesting pieces of information:
- Neaderthal and Homo Sapien do not have 1 common ancestor directly before the "species" / "population group" / <insert whatever vocabulary word you want>. Actually, they don't share a common grand-ancestor. The divergence is older than 2 grand-ancestor speciations.
- There are other examples of hybridization, some of them produce fertile offspring. We still consider those original individuals as distinct species. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/animal-hybrids-ligers-and-tigons-and-pizzly-bears-oh-my-31133439/
- The latest estimate is that 16% of all bird species interbreed in the wildhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ibi.12285
- Lastly, biological species is a word that predates a LOT of genetic research. Due to the lack of information, the definition is lacking - however, the difference between animals can still be significant even if interbreeding can occur. Tigers and Lions are definitely different animals - huge behavioral changes in terms of hunting, mating, social structure. Consistent differences in size and athleticism
- Species was first used in 1686, it's an outdated term and associated definition. It probably isn't very scientifically accurate, but we need to actually find the right balance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_concept#:~:text=Before%20Darwin,-The%20idea%20that&text=The%20term%20species%20was%20just,was%20possible%20within%20a%20species.
[deleted] t1_jaa9k1o wrote
wittor t1_jaa9ifm wrote
Reply to comment by dub-fresh in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
I would not say there was something to lose or win in this case. As new populations (of homo sapiens) settled(in Europe, coming from other regions) the admixture (of the gene polls of both populations) diluted Neanderthal's contribution (that they made to the gene poll of the more ancient population) to the total gene pool of (present) Europe.
Edited for clarification ()
GSilky t1_jaa94jx wrote
Reply to comment by Afraid_Atmosphere781 in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
The efficacy of nonviolent protest.
Loki11910 t1_jaa93re wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Well the Neanderthal may have actually been a night active predator, which almost made the homo sapiens go extinct. That is at least the theory raised in "Sapiens a brief history of mankind" so I would say almost none of it was.
[deleted] t1_jaa90qj wrote
[deleted] t1_jaa8zaq wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
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[deleted] t1_jaa8ymt wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
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Zillatamer t1_jaaf9zb wrote
Reply to comment by Poes-Lawyer in Revealed: Europe's Oldest Humans had Surprisingly Frequent Intermingling with Neanderthals by OptimalCrew7992
Well, yes, because we literally decide on what animals belong to our own genus. It's technically arbitrary, since we know Homo evolved from within Australopithecus. Homo habilis is generally considered the first species of Homo, though H. rudolfensis is about the same age. In our own line of descent it goes H. habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergenis, and then H. sapiens.
Homo erectus is thought to have left Africa first, about 2 mya, and persisted in Eurasia for quite a long time. Homo heidelbergenis left Africa later, maybe ~500 kya; the ones in Eurasia evolved into Neanderthals and Denisovans, while the ones in Africa evolved to Homo sapiens.
However, the existence of Homo floresiensis (often called Hobbits, because they're very short) in Indonesia adds a weird wrinkle to the question of "which species of Homo left Africa first?" Because it has a weird mix of traits that have led to very differing opinions on its classification. Some think it may be a direct descendant of H. habilis, some unknown early species of Homo, or even a derived member of Australopithecus, meaning one of those could have left Africa before even H. erectus, but we have no evidence for these ancestors in Eurasia, and most agree that it probably didn't evolve from H. erectus. This is actually one of the only really "missing links" left for our genus. It doesn't really affect our own lineage, but these are our cousins, so it's still an important question. It's kind of the weirdest outlier in human evolution that we know of.