Recent comments in /f/history
Lor360st t1_jdc0p6x wrote
Reply to ‘Dates add nothing to our culture’: Everywhen explores Indigenous deep history, challenging linear, colonial narratives by B0ssc0
That title is a bit sad. Personally if my culture was like that I wouldn't be going around telling people that, but that's just me.
B0ssc0 OP t1_jdbw2ci wrote
Reply to comment by shruggedbeware in ‘Dates add nothing to our culture’: Everywhen explores Indigenous deep history, challenging linear, colonial narratives by B0ssc0
> Aboriginal people are known to have occupied mainland Australia for at least 65,000 years. It is widely accepted that this predates the modern human settlement of Europe and the Americas.
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/evidence-of-first-peoples
http://www.workingwithindigenousaustralians.info/content/History_2_60,000_years.html
https://library.norwood.vic.edu.au/c.php?g=947355&p=6863582
Etc etc
shruggedbeware t1_jdbuyxz wrote
Reply to ‘Dates add nothing to our culture’: Everywhen explores Indigenous deep history, challenging linear, colonial narratives by B0ssc0
This might be the wrong subreddit for this article, OP.
I'm not familiar with anthropology as it's practiced in Australia, but most sources on world history/anthropology I've read date the earliest civilizations back to 15-20,000 BCE.
>Jim Bowler’s famous work at Lake Mungo in south-western New South Wales in the 1960s and 1970s pushed back the date of Aboriginal occupation even further – to an extraordinary 40,000 years. By the early 21st century, Aboriginal claims that they had always been here didn’t seem unreasonable alongside archaeological finds that measured their presence at 65,000 BCE.
Is this a joke? And then the article links to another article on said "remains" which says,
>While animal bones do not survive in the earliest levels of Madjedbebe, remarkably, plant remains do survive as a result of charring in ancient cooking hearths.
My main issue with the thesis of the book (as presented by the article writer) is as follows. Time, as most people understand it today, is not merely an experiential thing.* Conceptions of or the experience of time are not necessarily time itself. Current international time standards and metrics were imposed by Europeans onto the rest of the world, primarily for commercial reasons. Perhaps what the book might be for is a space for imagining or entering the mental space of Indigenous peoples, which is, to use a kind word, icky. The book is promoted as a break from the conception of "purity or wholeness before" of a colonized people but this angle fails by having Indigenous sources be interpreted through that same lens of being "out of time."
>And the question of whether (and how) Western historical narratives can populate deep history with actual lives, as well as understand and represent the thoughts, feeling and senses of people who lived thousands of years ago, is still to be answered.
While the process of making characters, settings and narratives is most commonly associated in the liberal arts tradition with the discipline of history, when describing civilizations/cultures/social practices on their own accord, studies become anthropological in nature. The archaeological findings described in the article should/would be bigger news if they were true and scientifically validated. Yet unclear what the book's author(s) are presenting the book as,** if the philological "evidence" or "substance" of the text is authentic, given the shakiness of the scientific evidence it is presented alongside. Again, if the book's contents are as the author describes, it seems as though while challenging a narrative of Indigenous Australianness as "atemporal," the author(s) fall into the same kind of conceptual "traps."
TLDR - A wonderful article that touches on issues in understanding the role of an oral tradition or philology in establishing historical study/review, but confusingly tries to establish the text and its findings in science and doesn't really describe any kind of true timeframe.
*Otherwise, what was the point of the scholars supposedly carbon-dating the remains?
**a cultural survey? or a textual sample? a documentation of languages/traditional narratives
Doctor_Impossible_ t1_jdbu77q wrote
Reply to comment by metallurgyhelp in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
>Or did men teach this to women back then too, in a dojo setting?
The system has been relatively stable for a long time. The teachers, up until fairly recently, were overwhelmingly male. Naginatajutsu/kyujutsu would have been a subset of the curriculum of a kobudo, and the teachers would have been expected to know and teach across the curriculum, not just sections of it that women were expected to know. There would have been plenty of female practitioners and experienced students, but female teachers would be unusual, and much more so the higher in the hierarchy you went.
Doctor_Impossible_ t1_jdbqkbe wrote
Reply to comment by GSilky in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
>How do you think LIDAR tech is going to upend our understanding of history?
It isn't, because that isn't how historical study works. Everything you discover using any method is added to what you already know. The most it does is upend people, who either have long-held beliefs about a certain aspect of history, or are crackpots who seize on it as proof their personal (and otherwise unsupported) brand of lunacy is correct and everyone else is wrong. Fruit loops, like Hancock for instance, always talk about totally upsetting established history, because they don't have a single bit of proof for what they believe, and they desperately want some evidence, any evidence, for what has become their individual religion, if not brand.
>Maybe give us a better perspective on those "barbarians" that invaded Rome
If you're talking about Alaric and the Goths, his name was Flavius Alaricus, and he was a Roman citizen. We have plenty of evidence showing Rome didn't 'fall' as commonly thought, and the pop history narratives around it are comprehensively wrong, based on writings that are hundreds of years out of date.
>or possibly cities that were erased before history.
LIDAR is great for finding sites. It's not going to find something that isn't there. This thread shows what LIDAR surveys can find, as an example. It's a fantastic method, relatively fast, surprisingly accurate. But like any method, it has to be used in conjunction with many others, over the course of years, to do patient, careful research to establish new evidence, and add that evidence to what has already been accumulated.
quantdave t1_jdbq8k3 wrote
Reply to comment by GSilky in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
I think it's potentially a big deal in broadening and deepening our knowledge, but I'm less convinced that it's about to upend history as we know it. My impression (and correct me if I'm wrong, I may be overlooking something) is that where evidence has been found for more intensive development than previously identified, it's been among cultures that were already known to have a fairly developed organisational capability, indeed that's often what drew the researchers to the site: the revelations seem to me to be quantitative advances (and important in their own right) rather than an overturning of existing perspectives. Angkor springs to my mind, its urban core found to have been bigger than previously thought and more intricately connected with the surrounding zone of intensive cultivation, but still not the the vast megacity imagined by some: the new information requires us to imagine a more ambitious scale and a more sophisticated regional supply network, but doesn't consign previous perspectives to the scrap-heap.
I actually do think there are towns (or perhaps we should say strongly clustered differentiated settlements) out there waiting to be found in unexpected places (indeed even where they're abundant the distribution suggests we're missing lots), but the ones I have in mind are modest local centres and trading posts strongly integrated with the adjacent territory or with more distant similar locations, which I find more interesting than the higher-profile tribute cities or ceremonial complexes that will doubtless also turn up, because it's the less ostentatious sites that rely on exchange rather than status, hinting at an active economic role and greater regional complexity.
Either way, it's an exciting technology. I'm happy with whatever turns up, even if it's nothing: a negative finding is itself a positive addition to our knowledge (and in fact I wish they were more fully reported: knowing a location's devoid of any unusual feature that might have been there tells us something of value even if it doesn't make the headlines). Let's see what turns up, it's all good stuff. But I'm not expecting any wholesale undoing of our current broad picture: just more to go on will be fine.
elmonoenano t1_jdbcp7p wrote
Reply to comment by dropbear123 in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I felt the same about the MacMillan book. It made a bunch of Best of 20XX lists so my expectations were probably too high. But I felt like it'd be good for someone maybe taking their first college level world history course.
elmonoenano t1_jdbbxc0 wrote
Reply to comment by TormundIceBreaker in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I'd probably start with Battle Cry Freedom by James McPherson.
It covers the whole war. It's really well written so it carries you along and is as enjoyable as such a topic can be. It covers the major events without being overwhelming and is a good book for getting a big picture view of the different campaigns. There are about a million copies floating around so finding it at the library or used won't be difficult. And even though it's somewhat dated, it was much better about avoiding Lost Cause stuff than Foote.
elmonoenano t1_jdbb95x wrote
Reply to comment by Historic12 in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Dr. Hilary Green's on twitter and as long as your polite she's usually pretty helpful. She's got a book coming out soon so she's pretty busy right now, but it's probably worth asking her. https://twitter.com/HilaryGreen77
elmonoenano t1_jdbajh1 wrote
Reply to comment by irequireausername in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I would check out Joshua Farrington's book, Black Republicans. You can hear an interview with him on the New Books Network. Although not exactly what you're asking it traces the same historical trends and events. The story it covers is that after 1880 the GOP was less invested in Black Americans and as Black Americans immigrated to the north, especially after the boll weevil infestation, the urban Democratic party machine saw that they could be part of a useful urban coalition. There's starts and stops to this (think Wilson and then FDR), but once Truman had integrated the military, the Dems were locked into the civil rights path. This created an opportunity for the GOP to start poaching white working class dems in the south. Barry Goldwater tested this unsuccessfully, but Nixon perfected it's dog whistles and subtext in what came to be known as the Southern Strategy. On top of that you have things like the Chicago Campaign by MLK that failed and William F. Buckley's campaign for Mayor NYC which showed the GOP how to use the strategy in the industrial north too.
There's a good book by Nick Buccola called The Fire Is Upon Us about James Baldwin and William F. Buckley that gets into Buckley's tactics in NYC. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/books/review/the-fire-is-upon-us-nicholas-buccola.html
Edit: I'll also throw in Mothers of Conservatism by Michelle Nickerson. It gets into how fears of integration in places like Orange County lead to kind of a intellectual and activist powerhouse among upper middle class white women that helped push people like Nixon and Reagan who made use of the Southern Strategy and fears of "communism" to fight civil rights and how they became the base of the GOP.
elmonoenano t1_jdb9hlv wrote
Reply to comment by ThunderStorm2137 in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
To echo the Andrew Roberts rec, I'll throw in that Roberts did a list over at Fivebooks.com about the 5 best books on Napoleon. It's definitely worth a read. https://fivebooks.com/best-books/napoleon-andrew-roberts/
irequireausername t1_jdb4b1a wrote
Reply to Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I’m curious about how the Democratic and Republican parties switched their positions from Democrats supporting states’ rights to Republicans supporting states’ rights. Does anyone have any good recommendations on resources to help me understand that better?
GSilky t1_jdayyub wrote
Reply to Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
How do you think LIDAR tech is going to upend our understanding of history? Or, do you think it is not a big deal? I hope you speculate in a rational way, but go nuts. I think it's going to show us something new in central Asia and Eastern Europe like it did in the Amazon and meso America. Maybe give us a better perspective on those "barbarians" that invaded Rome or possibly cities that were erased before history. Thoughts?
[deleted] t1_jdakgte wrote
Reply to comment by ArchaeoHugh in Saudi Arabia stone ruins were pilgrimage sites, where an ancient cult gathered to sacrifice animals about 7,000 years ago by marketrent
[deleted]
Historic12 t1_jdae4mx wrote
Reply to Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Sources on racial passing during reconstruction era
meekamunz t1_jdac8gu wrote
Reply to comment by extrobe in Olney: Roman villa mosaic found under Aldi supermarket site by Welshhoppo
You and me both. Right near the bottom I was, but no longer in Olney
nickdaname_ t1_jdabuy2 wrote
Reply to Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
Is there a connection between ancient India and ancient latin America? As there is evidence of Hindu idols found in Peru and other South American countries.
I stumbled upon this when I was looking at Latin American names and found some similarities with Indian names mainly Shiva and I had to research more.
https:// www.booksfact.com/archeology/rahu-siva-ganesha-in-mexico-uxmal-temple.html
TormundIceBreaker t1_jdabp6b wrote
Reply to Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I posted this on r/suggestmeabook but figured I may get a better response here. Copying my post below:
​
Looking for a non-fiction book (or a series) that covers the American Civil War, primarily covering the military campaigns of the North & South.
I have recently read When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler by Jonathan House and David Glantz*, The First World War* by John Keegan, and The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro (I recommend all of them to those who are interested). All of these books were well researched, densely packed with facts, but still did a good job of going over the major campaigns without getting bogged down in minutia.
I know a lot about the major battles of the American Civil War and the general ebb and flow of the conflict, but want to read a more exhaustive overview that covers everything from Bull Run to Appomattox.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
DominikFisara t1_jdaabzk wrote
Reply to comment by ThunderStorm2137 in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
That’s the one! It got a little dry at points for me during Napoleon’s early life but on the whole it’s fantastic imo
Outrageous-Door8924 t1_jda9psd wrote
Reply to comment by en43rs in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
Spot on, that must be it!
ThunderStorm2137 t1_jda61jd wrote
Reply to comment by DominikFisara in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I have not I’ll have to check it out. Is it the one by Everett Rummage?
en43rs t1_jda4aeq wrote
Reply to comment by Outrageous-Door8924 in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
It's the same architectural style called "chateauesque" that imitates French renaissance architecture, popular in the late 19th century. Here's a building in Winnipeg and here's one in Quebec.
No-Strength-6805 t1_jda3xjv wrote
Reply to comment by ThunderStorm2137 in Bookclub and Sources Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Andrew Robert's 976pg biography well known author
Outrageous-Door8924 t1_jda3o1b wrote
Reply to comment by Doctor_Impossible_ in Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
Although I imagined their race-based ideology played big part, you put it all in way more clear, concrete terms and made that easily understandable for an uneducated person (like myself). Thanks for explaining!
throwaway9394792 t1_jdc6bsa wrote
Reply to Weekly History Questions Thread. by AutoModerator
Honestly this is very random. But I am going to be getting a realism tattoo on my arm and want it to represent my Celtic heritage. Anyone know of any fables myths or legends that could add some inspiration to my arm??? Thank you