My dad lived in Orange county during WWII and the family would be driving along through the orchards, following a pickup truck full of German POWs singing German folk songs en route to working in the orchards.

“Once zee rockets go up, who cares vhere zhey come down? Zat’s not my department” says Wehner von Braun

Interesting stuff,

So what exactly was the plan by the Wijeong Cheoksa types to counter Japanese and Western gunboat diplomacy and expel the 'barbarians' (so to speak), given Korea's relative lack of military power or international standing?

In the case of Japan, even the most hardcore 'Revere the emperor, expel the barbarian' adherents (i.e. Choshu and Satsuma) came around to buying modern rifles and artillery and training in Western tactics once they saw their military weakness. Heck, when a British warship penetrated the defenses of Nagasaki back in 1807, there were some far-sighted officials who began buying western guns and learning about western military tactics to counteract the threat.

There seems to have been a comparative lack of urgency or perhaps a deep seated delusion at what Korea could accomplish. If I recall, the Daewongun's response to the challenges posed by the French and American attacks was to attempt to build a battleship made up of feathers (!) (among more practical projects like building a steam ship or bulletproof cotton armor) and to arm peddlers and tiger hunters as troops (I read that there was some historical ties between the ruling dynasty and the peddlers which made them particularly loyal)

I’m morbidly curious why the Japanese military were always so keen to rape and violate their enemy’s women even up to WW2, after nearly a century of modernization. For a country that always prided itself on the honor of its warrior class, they certainly didn’t extend that honor to women. I guess it takes more than a few generations to enlighten a stubbornly medieval society.

Despicable, just like the Japanese in the US.

Partially, and partially simply expecting that things worked (or should work) the same in those other countries, I should think.

While not wanting to downplay or ignore racial issues outside of the US, by the time the Americans arrived on British shores the UK army was desegregated, and volunteers of all colours from all over the Empire had already been involved in fighting.

The New Zealand army was also desegregated, (and the Māori Battalion had an excellent reputation from service in Crete and North Africa) and while I've little doubt there were a fair number of racists and bigots among the white Kiwis, a colour bar in Wellington was a step too far. And while there were a number of scuffles and brawls, the NZ Government also put considerable effort into reducing tensions, arranging for US servicement to visit Marae and Māori cultural events.

There was definitely racism, though at that point in time, there wasn't any racism enshrined in law (though some laws did come about over a decade later regarding immigration from non-white parts of the commonwealth) however there was no protections from racism. Racism in Britain was very much on a case by case basis and while I don't want to diminish how it was in the early 40s, it was considerably worse come the 50s as a reaction to several large waves off immigration (which were also spread across more cities than previous waves) which also turned racism into a domestic political issue.

Unrelated. You're talking about the Nazi death camps, this article is about concentration camps in Britain.

Yup. I remember one story where the town by one of these camps had a dance between the townspeople and Nazi prisoners.

Be aware, at this same time, American citizens of Japanese descent were being put in internment camps, and they sure as hell were not having dances.

The tendency of Americans to interpret issues in other countries in American terms.

I mean, Britain had its own "colour bar" but that was nothing compared to Jim Crow. (I really only know of it because sports writer Reg Gutteridge mentioned d it in the Randolph Turpin chapter of his book *Masters Of Boxing.*)

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Somewhat unrelated but still related so thought I'd point out that roughly half of Holocaust victims were Slavic people

The thing about the Epic of Gilgamesh is that it's arguably the oldest extant example of a tale that's very loosely based on a true story; Gilgamesh is generally agreed to have been a historical king of the Sumerian city-state of Uruk... but anything beyond that basic fact is unknown.

While little is really known of the historical Gilgamesh, surviving Mesopotamian law codes such as the Code of Ur-Nammu, Laws of Eshnunna, and Code of Hammurabi don't support the idea of any actual kings having the legal right to rape their female subjects. While rape of women in these law codes was often treated as a property crime against a woman's father or husband (or owner if she was a slave), it was nonetheless a crime.

The text about the pharaoh Unas is, however, another ball of wax. Its context is a pyramid text honoring Unas as a living incarnation of the crocodile-headed fertility god, Sobek. So, we probably should be hesitant to take that passage literally. Unlike with the Mesopotamians, however, we can't look at any actual law codes, because no ancient Egyptian law code has survived.

My great uncle used to muse how the German pows had better treatment than he did as a black man.

Sorry.i misunderstood.

Internment camps wouldn't happen today. Not the slightest chance.

And I shouldn't say everyone. There is always a certain portion of the population that are fighting for rights. Tens of thousands of Germans just showed up so let's say the vast majority didn't want Germans wandering around possibly spying.

Damn. Really awesome post, thanks for the work that went in to this. I hope you have other outlets in which to post your work - I'd hate that it'd go underappreciated.

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59000 initially, then 80000 more and 10000 orphans. I deeply wish more were saved.

>What was funny though was that the Germans created their own stricter camp rules

Your probably referring to the fact the Nazis in the camps attempted to maintain loyalty amongst the non-nazi members who rather enjoyed not being on the front lines anymore by harsh extrajudicial discipline.

However, rank is still maintained in POW camps, POWs must follow orders of superior officers and nominally they are under the command of their superior officers who are themselves obligated to follow the lawful commands of the camp commanders. So discipline was largely handled by the prisoners rather than the guards. At the same time enlisted guards had to show superior rank prisoner a certain amount of respect and enlisted prisoners had to show superior rank camp staff the same amount of respect they would their own superior rank officers. Being in a camp wasn't like being in a prison, it was like being in the army but instead of doing combat your being kept busy because you aren't allowed to move freely.

I alluded to it but got downvoted by morons who, for some reason, dislike historical facts in a history sub, go figure.

The ship was the SS Drotnighelm iirc, or something like that, and the refugees on it were not the last to be refused entry into the US. The times were very highly charged, and everyone was paranoid, and I guess the decisions seemed sensible at the time, but now looking back with the advantage of the passage of time, we might think that better options should have been found, like the Brits did with the camps.

One of my grandma's friends was British and was in Germany when the war broke out. Foreigners from enemy countries were usually rounded up and put into concentration camps (not death camps, that's just the name for them) so they got sent to one for British people. They would write each other through the red cross and there are pictures from the camp. They apparently had plays and carnivals and sports games. Not saying that not having freedom of movement wasnt bad but if I was a civilian prisoner of war it doesn't sound half bad. Near the end it obviously got bad, food and supplies became rationed, but they survived in good health before being repatriated.

Still nothing on that ship full of Jews running away from Germany... that USA turn back from their port, back to Germany

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