Recent comments in /f/history
RedPninety t1_ivqsdwl wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I finished Walter Stahr's biography of Salmon Chase, Lincoln's treasury secretary.
Chase was a leading lawyer in Ohio for African American rights in the 1840s. He followed this up by being a senator, governor, Treasury secretary and finally serving in the supreme court in his last years. Worth a read if you have an interest in figures from the civil war era
PoorMeImInMarketing t1_ivqhyti wrote
WWII Question: I’m writing a historical-fiction story and I’m trying to set it in a town during WW2. I’m looking for a town or area in France that was under occupation from Germany, liberated by the Allies for at least a short time, then retaken by Germany (even if only briefly).
If I can’t find a setting like that I’ll have to place the story in Luxembourg or Belgium during the battle of the bulge or something :/
novapbs OP t1_ivpza9e wrote
Reply to The Nazca lines depict people, birds, and even the rare "pampas cat." Get a birds-eye view of these geoglyphs. by novapbs
Spread out over 200 square miles of the Peruvian desert lies a treasure of the ancient world: thousands of enormous “geoglyphs,” huge shapes made from rocks and earth. Most of these are lines—some continuing for miles—while others are geometric shapes and recognizable figures: a spider, a hummingbird, a cactus, a llama, a flower. Known as the Nazca lines, the geoglyphs have survived for many centuries thanks to the dry climate of Peru’s southern coast—long outlasting the civilization that made them.
Rusty_Junkie_Rat t1_ivpvusu wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I want to learn about the history of Georgia after gaining independence from USSR and what kind of situation Georgia was in back then, bonus points if the book talks about Zviad Gamsakhurdia and his time as president
elmonoenano t1_ivpu6m4 wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I'm reading The Company right now by Stephen Brown. Someone on one of these threads recommended it a while ago. It's about the Hudson Bay Company and it's really interesting to see how exploration of the interior of the continent took place, how trade networks operated and changed, and how indigenous culture adapted to the changing economic situation. I think if you're at all curious about Canadian or Western US history then this is a great read.
I think Brown is a pretty good writer and the book is very engaging. He raises some good comparisons with modern society and asks some interesting questions about how cultures interact.
Hattarottattaan3 t1_ivpu6hn wrote
Reply to comment by ADROSIDI in Discovery of bronzes rewrites Italy’s Etruscan-Roman history by VoloNoscere
Let's not forget in fact other important cultures that didn't disappear all of a sudden, like ligures, samnites, oscan peoples, daunians, sicanians, greek city states of Magna Grecia... They didn't disappear all of a sudden at all
dropbear123 t1_ivpo13r wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Finished Fracture: Life and Culture in the West, 1918-1938 by Philipp Blom review copied and pasted
>4.5/5 rounding up for Goodreads. I really liked it and would recommend it to anyone interested in the interwar period. I also liked it a lot more than Blom's earlier book The Vertigo Years: Europe 1900-1914 as it has more politics. Possibly one of the better history books I've read in 2022.
>The basic style of the book is that each year is a chapter and an event from that year is used to talk about and analyze a specific theme across the whole period. So 1918 is the end of WWI so the chapter is a lot about trauma, the impact of so many dead or crippled and the feeling of a 'lost generation' which affected the whole period, 1920 uses the beginning of prohibition to talk about prohibition across the whole 20s and its impact on morality etc. It's not an 'X happened then Y happened' sort of book. There is a good mix of cultural, scientific (the Scopes Monkey trial about teaching evolution in 1925 for example), ideological (1919 chapter starts with D'Annunzio's capture of Fiume so it is about the beginning of fascist movements and other conservative views like Spengler's Decline of the West) and political topics. The author is good at bringing the cultural and scientific topics back to how people felt politically and how they responded to the changes of the 20s and 30s. Morality and the reaction to the new movements, arts and lifestyles get a lot of mention in the book. .There isn't really anything about international politics between countries, aside from the 1937 chapter on the Spanish Civil War but I like the focus on the other stuff for a change. Despite the title saying it is focused on the west there is still quite a bit on the Soviet Union, with the 1921 Kronstadt rebellion (the theme is failed leftwing or worker uprisings, Germany's communist March Action and the USA's Battle of Blair Mountain is also mentioned), the beginning of the 5 year plans (mainly focused around the founding of the steel plant at Magnitogorsk) and the holodomor. The writing style is very good and the descriptions/depictions are also very good for things like the Dust Bowl in the USA.
Now for a shorter military history book - They Shall Not Pass: The French Army on the Western Front 1914-1918 by Ian Sumner. Mostly focusing on the soldier's personal experiences. Enjoying it so far and have finished the chapter on 1914.
elmonoenano t1_ivpnz3f wrote
Reply to comment by WhoPaul in Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
You might be interested in The High and the Mighty. It's more recent, about the boom in SUVs at the end of the 90s. It came out right before gas prices spiked in the mid 2000s. It ends with a bunch of questions that kind of got delayed b/c of the high gas prices, but are relevant again.
The part you might like about it is it looks at how the design eased insecurities in society and played into certain ideas of toughness/ruggedness but also sort of addressed women's desires that had been ignored up until then that were positive in one way, but still used safety standards that basically ignored women and had negative impacts in other ways.
AutoModerator t1_ivpfs4l wrote
Hi!
As we hope you can appreciate, the Holocaust can be a fraught subject to deal with. While we don't want to curtail discussion, we also remain very conscious that threads of this nature can attract the very wrong kind of responses, and it is an unfortunate truth that on reddit, outright Holocaust denial can often rear its ugly head. As such, the /r/History mods have created this brief overview. It is not intended to stifle further discussion, but simply lay out the basic, incontrovertible truths to get them out of the way.
##What Was the Holocaust? The Holocaust refers to the genocidal deaths of 5-6 million European Jews carried out systematically by Nazi Germany as part of targeted policies of persecution and extermination during World War II. Some historians will also include the deaths of the Roma, Communists, Mentally Disabled, and other groups targeted by Nazi policies, which brings the total number of deaths to 11-17 million. Debates about whether or not the Holocaust includes these deaths or not is a matter of definitions, but in no way a reflection on dispute that they occurred.
##But This Guy Says Otherwise! Unfortunately, there is a small, but vocal, minority of persons who fall into the category of Holocaust Denial, attempting to minimize the deaths by orders of magnitude, impugn well proven facts, or even claim that the Holocaust is entirely a fabrication and never happened. Although they often self-style themselves as "Revisionists", they are not correctly described by the title. While revisionism is not inherently a dirty word, actual revision, to quote Michael Shermer, "entails refinement of detailed knowledge about events, rarely complete denial of the events themselves, and certainly not denial of the cumulation of events known as the Holocaust."
It is absolutely true that were you to read a book written in 1950 or so, you would find information which any decent scholar today might reject, and that is the result of good revisionism. But these changes, which even can be quite large, such as the reassessment of deaths at Auschwitz from ~4 million to ~1 million, are done within the bounds of respected, academic study, and reflect decades of work that builds upon the work of previous scholars, and certainly does not willfully disregard documented evidence and recollections. There are still plenty of questions within Holocaust Studies that are debated by scholars, and there may still be more out there for us to discover, and revise, but when it comes to the basic facts, there is simply no valid argument against them.
##So What Are the Basics?
Beginning with their rise to power in the 1930s, the Nazi Party, headed by Adolf Hitler, implemented a series of anti-Jewish policies within Germany, marginalizing Jews within society more and more, stripping them of their wealth, livelihoods, and their dignity. With the invasion of Poland in 1939, the number of Jews under Nazi control reached into the millions, and this number would again increase with the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. Shortly after the invasion of Poland, the Germans started to confine the Jewish population into squalid ghettos. After several plans on how to rid Europe of the Jews that all proved unfeasible, by the time of the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, ideological (Antisemitism) and pragmatic (Resources) considerations lead to mass-killings becoming the only viable option in the minds of the Nazi leadership.
First only practiced in the USSR, it was influential groups such as the SS and the administration of the General Government that pushed to expand the killing operations to all of Europe and sometime at the end of 1941 met with Hitler’s approval.
The early killings were carried out foremost by the Einsatzgruppen, paramilitary groups organized under the aegis of the SS and tasked with carrying out the mass killings of Jews, Communists, and other 'undesirable elements' in the wake of the German military's advance. In what is often termed the 'Holocaust by Bullet', the Einsatzgruppen, with the assistance of the Wehrmacht, the SD, the Security Police, as well as local collaborators, would kill roughly two million persons, over half of them Jews. Most killings were carried out with mass shootings, but other methods such as gas vans - intended to spare the killers the trauma of shooting so many persons day after day - were utilized too.
By early 1942, the "Final Solution" to the so-called "Jewish Question" was essentially finalized at the Wannsee Conference under the direction of Reinhard Heydrich, where the plan to eliminate the Jewish population of Europe using a series of extermination camps set up in occupied Poland was presented and met with approval.
Construction of extermination camps had already begun the previous fall, and mass extermination, mostly as part of 'Operation Reinhard', had began operation by spring of 1942. Roughly 2 million persons, nearly all Jewish men, women, and children, were immediately gassed upon arrival at Bełżec, Sobibór, and Treblinka over the next two years, when these "Reinhard" camps were closed and razed. More victims would meet their fate in additional extermination camps such as Chełmno, but most infamously at Auschwitz-Birkenau, where slightly over 1 million persons, mostly Jews, died. Under the plan set forth at Wannsee, exterminations were hardly limited to the Jews of Poland, but rather Jews from all over Europe were rounded up and sent east by rail like cattle to the slaughter. Although the victims of the Reinhard Camps were originally buried, they would later be exhumed and cremated, and cremation of the victims was normal procedure at later camps such as Auschwitz.
##The Camps
There were two main types of camps run by Nazi Germany, which is sometimes a source of confusion. Concentration Camps were well known means of extrajudicial control implemented by the Nazis shortly after taking power, beginning with the construction of Dachau in 1933. Political opponents of all type, not just Jews, could find themselves imprisoned in these camps during the pre-war years, and while conditions were often brutal and squalid, and numerous deaths did occur from mistreatment, they were not usually a death sentence and the population fluctuated greatly. Although Concentration Camps were later made part of the 'Final Solution', their purpose was not as immediate extermination centers. Some were 'way stations', and others were work camps, where Germany intended to eke out every last bit of productivity from them through what was known as "extermination through labor". Jews and other undesirable elements, if deemed healthy enough to work, could find themselves spared for a time and "allowed" to toil away like slaves until their usefulness was at an end.
Although some Concentration Camps, such as Mauthausen, did include small gas chambers, mass gassing was not the primary purpose of the camp. Many camps, becoming extremely overcrowded, nevertheless resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of inhabitants due to the outbreak of diseases such as typhus, or starvation, all of which the camp administrations did little to prevent. Bergen-Belsen, which was not a work camp but rather served as something of a way station for prisoners of the camp systems being moved about, is perhaps one of the most infamous of camps on this count, saw some 50,000 deaths caused by the conditions. Often located in the Reich, camps liberated by the Western forces were exclusively Concentration Camps, and many survivor testimonies come from these camps.
The Concentration Camps are contrasted with the Extermination Camps, which were purpose built for mass killing, with large gas chambers and later on, crematoria, but little or no facilities for inmates. Often they were disguised with false facades to lull the new arrivals into a false sense of security, even though rumors were of course rife for the fate that awaited the deportees. Almost all arrivals were killed upon arrival at these camps, and in many cases the number of survivors numbered in the single digits, such as at Bełżec, where only seven Jews, forced to assist in operation of the camp, were alive after the war.
Several camps, however, were 'Hybrids' of both types, the most famous being Auschwitz, which was vast a complex of subcamps. The infamous 'selection' of prisoners, conducted by SS doctors upon arrival, meant life or death, with those deemed unsuited for labor immediately gassed and the more healthy and robust given at least temporary reprieve. The death count at Auschwitz numbered around 1 million, but it is also the source of many survivor testimonies.
##How Do We Know?
Running through the evidence piece by piece would take more space than we have here, but suffice to say, there is a lot of evidence, and not just the (mountains of) survivor testimony. We have testimonies and writings from many who participated, as well German documentation of the programs. This site catalogs some of the evidence we have for mass extermination as it relates to Auschwitz. Below you'll find a short list of excellent works that should help to introduce you to various aspects of Holocaust study.
- "Third Reich Trilogy" by Richard Evans
- "Hitler, the Germans, and the Final Solution" by Ian Kershaw
- "Auschwitz: A New History" by Laurence Rees
- "Ordinary Men" by Christopher Browning
- "Denying the Holocaust" by Deborah E. Lipstadt
- AskHistorians FAQ
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/messa
Royal_Bumblebee_ t1_ivpeq31 wrote
Reply to comment by K5Vampire in The mysterious Viking runes found in a landlocked US state by bafangoolNJ
its really sad... journos are so desperate to publish a "scoop" that they will hide behind "objectivity" and print outsider/minority opinions even when they hold zero weight. often gives a false impression of genuine conrtoversy when none actually exists
Royal_Bumblebee_ t1_ivpe3l8 wrote
Reply to comment by AmbitiousBird5503 in A 1000-year-old Viking silver treasure found in Sweden by drexa24
yeah... dont forget that they would be paid off with foreign coins... and back then they would have literally been made out of a prescious metal meaning you can melt them down and recast in your own style...etc.
Royal_Bumblebee_ t1_ivpdm7y wrote
Reply to comment by VoloNoscere in Discovery of bronzes rewrites Italy’s Etruscan-Roman history by VoloNoscere
also wouldnt it be a transition to the Roman Republic, not Empire
McGillis_is_a_Char t1_ivpd2bw wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Does anyone know a good book about the diplomacy, spying, and double dealing going on in the Renaissance Mediterranean. Preferably something that talks about the Italian city-states' relationship with the Ottoman Empire.
ideonode t1_ivpbvec wrote
Reply to comment by WhoPaul in Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Tom Standage recently wrote a book called A Brief History of Motion. This covers, broadly, our attempte to travel fast on wheels, ranging from the earliest carts and chariots through to self driving vehicles. It has a particular focus on cars, and in particular, the social aspects of automobiles. Highly recommended.
Being honest, Standage is an excellent writer of narratives on the social history of technology. I recommend all that he's written.
[deleted] t1_ivp9l50 wrote
Reply to They fled persecution in Nazi Germany. Then the British put them behind barbed wire by lanzkron
And now Israel is doing the same things to Palestinians
ImOnlyHereCauseGME t1_ivp7y54 wrote
Reply to comment by D4rkWulf in Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Sounds like a fascinating mix of history, anthropology and psychology, I’ll add it to my reading list! Thanks for the suggestion!
Pepperonidogfart t1_ivp0684 wrote
Reply to comment by badniff in A 1000-year-old Viking silver treasure found in Sweden by drexa24
Thanks for such a thorough reply. Im definitely not wealthy enough to start funding excavations and surveyors but if i ever am id love to fund such pursuits. In regards to the morality of it id say that it is quite honorable for the deceased to truly live on forever if their* affects are displayed in a museum. But, i suppose wed be ripping them from an eternal rest and separating them from all of their beloved goods, horses and servants if we are to believe their religions are true.
Perhaps my knowledge is incorrect but if the Jutes, Swedish Vendel people and Danes got around as much as it seems we could likely learn a lot about the rest of the world of their time based on what they are buried with. With their huge trade networks i feel like there is a lot of potential to bring more light to the dark ages.
This is, of course, the hopes and dreams of an un-educated layman lol. So apologies for any inaccuracies.
WhoPaul t1_ivoyl57 wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Any good books on the history of the automotive industry and maybe how it links to society? Preferably in a not-usa context. Currently enjoying Cars for Comrades by Lewis Siegelbaum and also Michael Edwards’ biography Back From The Brink.
D4rkWulf t1_ivot475 wrote
Reply to comment by ImOnlyHereCauseGME in Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
It has been a very good read so far. The problem with most research papers and books for me is the amount of gibberish that requires half a PHD just to understand, but Buss tells it in a manner that makes it easy to understand. The only downside I'd say is that he uses a lot of extensive examples to showcase the same problem from different angles (which has benefits at times, but can also makes reading slower).
The only thing I'd say before reading it is to be ready to be faced with some uncomfortable truths. He displays a lot of statistical results and conclusions without trying to insert his own opinion. Therefore you have entire sections dedicated to e.g. the practical uses of infidelity. I am yet to read the chapter 'Sexual Conflict' which might be worse, but at least it's honest.
It personally gave a lot of insight in my own behavior, explained the behavior I've observed in some others and clears the fog on some controversial topics regarding attraction between genders.
ImOnlyHereCauseGME t1_ivor0qt wrote
Reply to comment by D4rkWulf in Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
I don’t have any recommendations (sorry) but wanted to ask your opinion on the Evolution of Desire so far, that sounds very interesting and I’m thinking I’ll check it out
ImOnlyHereCauseGME t1_ivoqhwm wrote
Reply to Bookclub Wednesday! by AutoModerator
Any good book recommendations on the Roman expansion efforts into Germany? Specifically looking for something on the Battle of Teutoburg Forest and the aftermath of that. I am not as familiar with Roman history as I’d like to admit so I’d like something less academic if possible and more of an overview/layman’s explanation of the events leading up to and resulting from the battle.
Averla93 t1_ivonk2e wrote
Reply to comment by Fatshortstack in Discovery of bronzes rewrites Italy’s Etruscan-Roman history by VoloNoscere
There were a lot of Etruscan cities, just a few were destroyed by the Romans, Veium and Volsinii (Orvieto) come to mind, most were integrated as "allies" and then gradually given Roman citizenship until there was total integration, this discovery might move this integration a few centuries later.
Fatshortstack t1_ivohzck wrote
Reply to comment by Averla93 in Discovery of bronzes rewrites Italy’s Etruscan-Roman history by VoloNoscere
I'm no historian, but I was under the impression that the Etruscan culture died when they were sacked by rome?
badniff t1_ivofrt9 wrote
Reply to comment by Pepperonidogfart in A 1000-year-old Viking silver treasure found in Sweden by drexa24
It's been some time since I studied archaeology, but as I remember everything that exists below ground belongs to the state, and any object dated older than 1850 is protected by law for the sake of conservation. If you find something that looks really old while digging in the lawn for example, you have to report this to the local museum so that they can examine it (preferable on location if possible). What is most interesting to archaeologists is finding new unknown sites. There is a map detailing all the known archaeologically interesting/important sites in Sweden (LINK zoom and look around a bit, imagine where would be a nice strategic location and look there). These are places were you need special permit to dig or build, outside of the regular controls.
To get a permit to excavate you must have a reason for it. What archaeology is about is not finding underground objects, it is learning about the past. You must motivate what you are going to research and why that excavation is necessary for the research. What do you hope to learn? Can it be examined non-invasively using modern technology instead?
There is another reason excavation is done and that is during building projects. If you want to build something and that happens to disturb (or find) a site, then you are required to finance the excavation. It is really the unexpected and unknown finds that are most exciting in my opinion, since they always teach us something new.
Now, even if you have a permit for excavation, that excavation must be handled by researchers with the appropriate level of education and skills. thankfully education is free in sweden so if you take the time and study diligently that shouldn't be too big of a hurdle.
But if you are rich and want to contribute to the knowledge of the past, we can probably learn more by doing more intensive surveying of landscapes with modern techniques and tools. My home region has very few known sites, probably because it has been and still is more less a dense forest. By using modern surveying tools, and the funding to hire enough manpower it could be possible to find a lot of unknown sites.
Yet I sympathize, I also am very curious about what we might find if we excavate everything, but many of the gravmounds just contain ashes of the deceased. There is always an ethical dilemma there, does excavating the grave yield enough knowledge to motivate disturbing it? Yet if somebody came up with a vast sum of money, I'm certain that archaeologists would pitch a lot of interesting research and excavations that they have not been able to do because of limited funding.
its8up t1_ivr27cw wrote
Reply to The Nazca lines depict people, birds, and even the rare "pampas cat." Get a birds-eye view of these geoglyphs. by novapbs
Old photo or did they just do a good job of repairing the Greenpeace vandalism?