Recent comments in /f/history

SquiffSquiff t1_ivxhbkb wrote

The point being that NASA could transport entire Saturn V rocket stages (by barge) and the shuttle orbiter (by plane) but for some reason there was 'no way' these boosters could be made in a single piece...

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TomtheBombadilly t1_ivxgq3x wrote

Perhaps that’s where we get into the weeds: where morality is closely tied to culture and vice versa. Perhaps (this is a big perhaps with a capital “P”) what separated Greco-Roman religion from the monotheistic religions was the relatively universal nature of the latter. It’s cross-cultural applicability. As someone else has commented, one idea could be that of universal human dignity (the “made in the image of God” thing). Again, I think morality as a human idea is culturally embedded and can’t be untied from culture. The Greco-Romans were moral as much as they were social. You can’t be social without having rules (hence morality). Christianity’s contribution to morality (and PERHAPS social and cultural interaction) was its universality (incorporating non-Jews and Jews within a single spiritual and embodied community).

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Spaceguy5 t1_ivxea9z wrote

Can you not? Cut it out with the conspiracy crap. As someone who works on the space program, I'm tired of hearing all the anti NASA peanut gallery comments that just assume some weird political corruption is going on behind the scenes, and that that is the only reason the architecture was planned how it was. It's very far removed from reality but yet that conspiracy garbage is something me and my coworkers get spammed with practically every time we talk about work on social media.

Also you should read that r/science comment you linked as a source more closely because it mentions practical reasons why segmenting makes sense and actually supports what I said moreso than you.

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SquiffSquiff t1_ivxdrlv wrote

Perfectly possible to make them that size, as discussed e.g. Here. It was because they wanted to manufacture them in Utah for I'm sure entirely sound technical reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with politics

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Tiny-Bus-3820 t1_ivxdm4w wrote

Like you, I am interested in the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. Here is two recommendations: The Battle that Stopped Rome by Peter Wells and Give Me Back My Legions: A Novel of Ancient Rome by Harry Turtledove. Wells offers a good overview, while Turtledove offers an an interesting fictional look at the relationship between Varus and Arminius that was so pivotal in Rome’s greatest defeat. Also Turtledove’s book is NOT part of a historical fiction series so you are not required to buy a ton of books. Hope you enjoy the books!!

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Spaceguy5 t1_ivx9lvs wrote

I mean, redundancy and fault tolerance aren't absolutely mandatory for a design to be good, as long as it's a simple design used in design operating conditions with a low chance of failing. SRBs flown pre-STS-51L in design temps didn't have signs of burn through, only ones flown cold showed signs (which the fact those flown out of spec showed signs even before 51L should have set off alarm bells and gotten the situation resolved without loss of life)

But yes, it definitely was made a better design by adding that fault tolerance, and without adding too terribly much mass and complexity. And it makes sense that they'd add it in after experiencing that failure mode (even if it was caused by out of spec operation) just to give more peace of mind.

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isanameaname t1_ivx9d88 wrote

They had been partially failing since early testing but that partial failure was deemed acceptable because they failed in a way which was thought to be within acceptable levels of risk:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster?wprov=sfla1

Fun fact: it wasn't.

> Evaluations of the proposed SRB design in the early 1970s and field joint testing showed that the wide tolerances between the mated parts allowed the O-rings to be extruded from their seats rather than compressed. This extrusion was judged to be acceptable by NASA and Morton Thiokol despite concerns of NASA's engineers. A 1977 test showed that up to .052 inches (1.3 mm) of joint rotation occurred during the simulated internal pressure of a launch. Joint rotation, which occurred when the tang and clevis bent away from each other, reduced the pressure on the O-rings which weakened their seals and made it possible for combustion gases to erode the O-rings.

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edric_o t1_ivx8cfn wrote

Or proof of the precise opposite, because their laws would count as extremely cruel by our standards.

One of the new ideas that Christianity introduced to the Mediterranean world was the idea of a common humanity, the idea that there are some rules that should apply to all people. Granted, these rules were very bare-bones things like "murder is bad no matter who you're murdering", but the point is that polytheists didn't think that murdering barbarians was morally problematic. In fact, murdering barbarians was heroic. Caesar brags about how many civilians he killed in Gaul - it was considered praiseworthy, and Roman generals almost certainly exaggerated their death toll to make themselves seem more glorious.

Today, modern propaganda is all about denying your atrocities, not exaggerating them. That is moral progress, even though atrocities still happen.

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Spaceguy5 t1_ivx0fes wrote

They need O-rings to seal the joints because the SRBs of that massive size are made by stacking multiple segments together and you need to be able to seal the hot gasses inside between the joints. There's no practical way to make SRBs that big without splitting them into segments

It wouldn't have been an issue if they used them at the correct temperatures. Though to be extra safe, they also redesigned the joints to be more robust and have a second layer after the failure. That redesign + more strict rules on launch temperatures led to there never being another issue with that part of the booster.

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