Recent comments in /f/history

Khelek7 t1_ixju7kx wrote

No idea the identity of the OP, but man living and growing up in the USA has given many of us a very wierd version of how the world communicates.

I worked in East Africa for a few years. The average Rwandan spoke three languages and many spoke four with only a limited education. (Kinyarwandan, Swahili (for the market), and either French (if you were old) or English (if you were young).

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McJohn_WT_Net t1_ixjtzmx wrote

There's a super-famous example of this very thing that linguists often cite as a clue to the divergence of languages from a common root. I've forgotten the specifics, but it comes down to two kings/war-leaders/chieftains taking an oath of friendship. One of the big dudes spoke French and the other German. So the French speaker delivered his oath in German so the German-speaking troops could hear and understand him, and the German-speaking dude dutifully followed up by repeating HIS oath in French so the French-speaking troops would know what he was promising. I was like, cool, that's neat, but the significance of this is it's the first recorded instance of French and German having diverged sufficiently from their common predecessor language as to be unintelligible to someone who didn't speak French/German.

Finding translators has been a real challenge in international relations for as long as there have BEEN international relations. The problem is that there's not a huge amount of material in the historic record as to how this was handled.

We know that Sacagawea was enough of an expert in Native Sign Language (as it existed at the time) that she was able to teach a lot of it to the Lewis & Clark party.

The pre-Renaissance reclamation of ancient Greek-language texts on natural science, literature, philosophy, art, mathematics, engineering, and astronomy relied on European monks finding translators who spoke Greek, Latin, and Arabic, and who were also scholarly enough to be able to explain the contents to the monks doing the transcribing. Legend has it this is how we got the symbol for "zero"; the monk was puzzled by the concept, so the translator obligingly recommended that he just draw a little hole in the middle of the equation.

Too, there's the example of La Malinche (a title, not her name, which has been lost) making great use of her multilingual skills to help Cortez destroy the Aztecs.

This particular story isn't told too often, but in the aftermath of the Second World War, displaced persons all over Europe took to the roads to try to walk home. As the roads got larger, the displaced found themselves sharing with the victorious military. At select crossroads, the Allies stationed multilingual Europeans who had survived the mayhem to talk to the displaced people, getting their names, home locations, and stories to help with what must have been a world-class traffic jam.

I guess, if contemporary civilization collapses, anyone who is multilingual is gonna be very, very prized.

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hawktron t1_ixjsycb wrote

There’s actually no evidence of rapid sea level rise during that period. The sea level rise happened rather gradualist over 100-300 year periods. People forget how big the sea is and even if these lakes burst it still take a lot of time to spread.

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gneccofes t1_ixjnlbw wrote

What you said is simply untrue. Columbus would've never identified as an Italian, he identified as a Genoese. His native tongue was Genoese, hence his original name was Cristoffa Corombo. Cristoforo Colombo is the Italian translation.

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kaubojdzord t1_ixjn9fy wrote

Cristoffa Corombo is name in Ligurian language, which Columbus probably spoke natively as he was from Genoa. Most Italians didn't speak Italian until the unification, they spoke their regional languages, like Ligurian.

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GermanScheissePorn t1_ixjml0a wrote

Probably over exaggerated hand signs looking ridiculous lol. And/or sock puppets?? I sometimes wonder how natives made fun of Columbus and giggle to myself. Sorry, I've had a few drinks...

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Painting_Agency t1_ixjmeoc wrote

Sorry, for some reason I thought this was linked to in the comment we were threading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-sea-rise-tale-told-accurately-for-10-000-years/

> How could such tales survive hundreds of generations without being written down?

> “There are aspects of storytelling in Australia that involved kin-based responsibilities to tell the stories accurately,” Reid said. That rigor provided “cross-generational scaffolding” that “can keep a story true.”

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matinthebox t1_ixjlag3 wrote

> When humans drain that soil for farming, the removal of the water allows the remaining soil to compact and settle. If the land is low enough, it can fall below the surrounding water level and the island will vanish.

or, alternatively, you dam off half of your country and continue to live below sea level. Damn those Dutch are stubborn.

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mboswi t1_ixjky9m wrote

If you don't believe what I say, look, for example, for river Minho and Xallahs in modern Jamaica. The same names are famous Galician rivers: Miño and Xallas. You can look for them too. The Miño is the longest river in Galicia, and longest river in Jamaica is... Minho too :P XD

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rKasdorf t1_ixjkrkf wrote

Humans have lived by bodies of water for all of our existence. Sea level has risen by hundreds of feet in some places since the ice age. It should be the common mainstream opinion of archeology that most of historical coastal human habitation is far beneath the waves by now.

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mboswi t1_ixjkgvj wrote

He was not Italian. This theory was debunked several years ago by forensic linguistic analysis, but the media and the general public still been repeating it.

The theory of him being Galician is partially based on several weird coincidences, like the fact that he used for places discovered in America the same names of places in Galicia, particularly of the Spanish province of Pontevedra. Something that draws special attention is that he used river Xallas in America for a river that flows into sea in a waterfall. And guess what? There is a river Xallas in Galicia, that also flows into the Atlantic ocean forming a waterfall, and it's the only one in western Europe.

There are some other examples like this. There are some other reasons. Anyhow, there al also other explanations for them. Let's see what happens.

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DarthCorleone t1_ixjk2y0 wrote

I don't think there's anything wrong with learning about and appreciating the culture of your ancestors. There is a big step from doing that, to holding your cultural heritage as superior to others. And of course there are many Italians who should be celebrated for their contributions to human civilization, but Columbus is not one of them.

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Pleasant_Skill2956 t1_ixjjuoa wrote

The concept of Italy is 3000 years old, the current political state did not exist but to say that it was born in Italy is 100% correct. His original name is Cristoforo Colombo , the rest are translations

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mboswi t1_ixjjgqq wrote

He was not not Italian. Several forensic linguistic analysis proved this theory wrong a long time ago, but the media has just been repeating the same for ages.

The theory of him being Galician is partially based on several weird coincidences, like the fact that he used for places discovered in America the same names of places in Galicia, particularly of the Spanish province of Pontevedra. Something that draws special attention is that he used river Xallas in America for a river that flows into sea in a waterfall. And guess what? There is a river Xallas in Galicia, that also flows into the Atlantic ocean forming a waterfall, and it's the only one in western Europe. There are some other examples like this.

There are some other reasons. Let's see what happens.

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