Recent comments in /f/history

Coloradostoneman t1_iy1t0v1 wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

Roosevelt was not the bad guy, but he definitely forced Japan's hand.

Edit:

Roosevelt did not allow Japan to continue the genocide. That is the point. Stopping the war in China was not really an option for Japan. Technically, they could have, but everyone knew they would not. The actions of Roosevelt resulted in the Pearl harbor attack. That is exactly why it was done, and that is a good thing. Roosevelt wanted in to the war, but the US public was not interested. By forcing Japan to attack Roosevelt could make the US population interested.

The only way to get the US into the war with a motivated population was to make someone punch the US. The only one that would and could hit the US was Japan and their hand could be forced.

−8

EletricDice t1_iy1sj1g wrote

Reply to comment by TotallyInOverMyHead in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

How are the Japanese going to supply an invasion force in Hawaii? Admiral Nagumo was worried that if he didn't start back after the 2nd wave he would have to scuttle some destroyers due to lack of fuel.
If Nagumo does a third wave his pilots have to land at night, of which they are not trained to do so. If he loses a quarter of his pilots he can't replace then with equal quality. He basically loses a carrier or two due to not having pilots. If its a disaster he might not have enough power to project meaningful air power at sea. Several planned invasions would have to be scrapped. Destroying the fuel depots or sinking the carriers buys time, but neither are going to be long term game changers. The US can replace the fuel, and the US built (many) more ships from Pear Harbor to 1945 then Japan built plus its pre war navy.

13

Coloradostoneman t1_iy1rvr6 wrote

Reply to comment by TakeBeerBenchinHilux in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

The attack on Hawaii makes perfect sense if you think a war with the US in the Pacific is inevitable. They did because of 3 factors: US declared that European Colonies in the area were off limits and those were the places that had oil. The US was essentially the sole supplier of oil to Japan before the war and had just declared an embargo. The US territory of the Philippines was between Japan and all of the critical resources in south east Asia and Australia.

Basically, the US put Japan in a corner with a short time line by cutting off the oil supply. Japan had to find more oil and to do so they had to invade the colonies which the US had said would mean war and shipping that oil would be impossibly vulnerable without attacking the Philippines which would mean war with the US.

If you are going to fight a war with the US you have to hit Hawaii first and with a huge and successfull strike. Projecting power across the Pacific without Hawaii is essentially impossible.

4

skoomski t1_iy1rfkl wrote

Reply to comment by Kirito619 in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

So in your logic they attack the US and then they lift the embargo? They captured the Dutch East Indies and their oil did them little good as they did not have the expertise to refine and never had enough ships to transport it. It was a historic blunder based on hubris no matter how you cut it.

7

huntimir151 t1_iy1r1yq wrote

Reply to comment by Nickrobl in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

Yeah, and their arithmetic included butchering civilians throughout southeast Asia as part of their delusions regarding their own superiority. Like nothing justified those choices it was Nazi level insanity, not pure realpolitik.

19

ComradeGibbon t1_iy1omeq wrote

Reply to comment by RiddlingTea in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

Matsuoka like I think most Japanese politicians and military leaders that spent time in the US all thought war with the United States would be a disaster. And also really really stupid because mostly the American interest in the far east was in selling stuff. But none of them had the power to stop the Army and Navy from starting a war.

20

Peaurxnanski t1_iy1oher wrote

Reply to comment by Seienchin88 in On April 2, 1941, a Japanese foreign minister asked Pope Pius XII to speak to U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt, so as to avert "a war of mutual destruction” by marketrent

Why did the US embargo them, and what were the terms to lift the embargo?

Japan was engaged in a brutal, genocidal campaign invading China and slaughtering millions.

The USA said "stop doing that or we'll cut off your oil supply"

All Japan had to do is stop invading and murdering China, and the US would sell them oil.

The US wasn't the bad guy, and they did nothing to deserve Pearl Harbor except try to stop a genocide using diplomatic means

55