Recent comments in /f/history

throwingthings05 t1_irwuode wrote

Looking for a book like Tony Judts Postwar, but about the US

I’ve read the perlstein quadrilogy, but I’m looking for something either 1945-1965 or present, or a little earlier to around 1965, but just mostly focused on domestic history.

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Xi_Highping t1_irvvf1j wrote

The type of personality that serial killers have is not exactly conductive to discipline and good order; most serial killers who served either had extremely mundane service in times of peace or in non-combat roles, or they had their service cut short because of psychiatric or disciplinary issues.

Besides, there's a difference between killing unarmed people who either can't defend themselves or can be overpowered, and killing armed men in the middle of a firefight. These guys are cowards, they don't want to actually risk life and limb to kill.

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Brad_Wesley t1_irvs86u wrote

> Still not good.

The 55 executed were police and military who tortured and killed other Cubans. They had it coming. For some reason nobody mentions the vastly more than 55 people the Batista people executed.

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socialcommentary2000 t1_irvhzb2 wrote

Armoring up a castle that could withstand artillery of the time period would require the mass production of iron plate. The problem with this, beyond the obvious, would be there's no way to roll it effectively until the first legitimate rolling mills that could work iron came about in the 1600s...and even then it only really took off in the 1700s when James Watt came up with the steam engine.

Short answer : Fabricating iron plate at scale was unobtainable until later.

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Anglicanpolitics123 OP t1_irvc1eg wrote

So lets just address this particular claim.

(i)It is true that the Cuban revolution did preside over political trials and executions.

(ii)You're presenting a misleading picture of Che Guevara's role in the trials of the Cuban revolution. Che did preside over some of them but he didn't execute thousands of political prisoners. Research done by official biographies like the one Jon Lee Anderson did in 1997 show he presided over 55 executions. Still not good. But no where near "thousands.

(iii)Distinctions need to be made between Fidel and Raul Castro's roles in the trials of the Cuban Revolution and Che Guevara's. Because Fidel and Raul Castro(especially the latter) where more prone to summary executions. In the case of Che Guevara it was actually the opposite. Che Guevara actually made sure that there was at least due process in the trials he presided over and even barred those with an ideological bias from presiding over the tribunals. He also acquitted several who were put on trial.

(iv)The context of the trials of the Cuban Revolution is important. The came after the overthrow of the Batista regime. Batista's regime was responsible for the murder of up to 20,000 Cubans and committed both crimes against humanity as well as war crimes during the revolutionary war such as the indiscriminate use of napalm and chemical weapons. When Castro came to power he implemented nation wide a policy called "The Law of the Sierra" which established capital punishment for those guilty of war crimes during the Batista era. It was essentially like what the Allies did in the Nuremberg trials after defeating the Nazis and what happened in the Tokyo trials after WWII.

(v)Fidel Castro and the Cuban revolutionaries also presided over those trials because of intense pressure from public opinion. During the revolution Castro had promised to the Cuban public accountability for those guilty of war crimes during the Batista government. Which sets the context for the trials he instituted. These trials of course produced condemnation in America. Now according to research done in the Book "A Century of Revolution: Insurgent and Counter Insurgent Violence in Latin America's Long Cold War" Castro as a gesture to try and maintain good relations with the U.S actually sought to suspend the trials. This produced a negative reaction among sectors of the Cuban public, particularly families of the victims of the Batista regime who carried pictures of both their dead relatives as well as the officials responsible for their deaths. Many even organised protests over that issue. So the injustice for them was letting those people go.

But to your general point about the developing world having different priorities.....there is actually truth to that and Nelson Mandela himself actually said this in an interview he did on American new networks in 1990. He was questioned about his close relationship with Fidel Castro given his struggle for human rights against apartheid. And he said quite bluntly that we are fighting a struggle against one of the worst racial tyrannies and have no time to spend on the internal affairs of Cuba. The fact of the matter is from the Third World's perspective what they saw is this. The U.S and Western governments backing apartheid and many colonial systems. Cuba fighting against apartheid and the colonial systems dominating them. Regardless of Castro's authoritarianism who are they gonna have a higher regard for?

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Vessarionovich t1_irv86ht wrote

(v) The Cuban revolution executed thousands of political prisoners after summary trials often lasting just minutes. Che Guevara presided over these trials.

Either the developing world was unaware of these monstrous injustices.....or their values and ethics reflected other priorities.

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Anglicanpolitics123 OP t1_iruqusy wrote

You kinda missed the boat with this response. I was explaining why the Cuban Revolution was extremely popular in the developing world and what historical events were taking place in the 50s and 60s that increased its popularity.

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SolomonBlack t1_irup8ft wrote

You hardly need massed lines of matchlock infantry to start taking precautions against all the new hotness that's been flying around the post-Crusades battlefields. Also consider that we're still in a period of history where having records at all suggests they were not all that rare. Or that this race for the beginning is a bit besides the point for technologies that would go on to exist and therefore continue developing side by side for another few centuries.

Also that this is all getting a far from the actual point since none of this leave much of a medieval castle period or getting anywhere near enough good metal production to start armoring a curtain wall.

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