My wife's school district has already made the switch. It's happening. First start is elementary, then high school, then middle school. High school isn't started last as a compromise to get them out still early enough to have after school jobs. It's brutal on my wife (elementary principal) because she needs to be up at 5am to be in well before teachers and students, but it's still a much better approach.

Private schools don’t face these same issues not because those teachers have a right to strike, but because they tend to be better off financially than public schools because they have more affluent families in their student community, and are able to provide higher/different comp. Not because they are unionized (the vast majority are not). Those teachers contracts actually are individual not collectively bargained.

Look, if you are good ignoring thousands of hours of learning loss, idk what to tell you. It’s a bad in if of itself, regardless of what causes it. It’s a significant price to pay by those who have the least control of the situation (the students).

You are specifically arguing for strikes to become a regular tool available to unions in negotiations. If you can’t see that strikes will become more prevalent regardless of circumstances if they are legalized you are just naive.

The canary in a coal mine is a shit metaphor. You cannot separate teachers and the union from thr situation, they are not some neutral signal like the canary is, they make up the system collectively, with the district/local govt. they are not some neutral signal.

I remember going that time for Middle/High school. It worked out fine for me.

Isn't that NJ #1?

It's high school - I imagine morning bus rides are pretty chill.

I don't have much to say about the time, but I went to a Voc/Tech school and had an hour bus ride.. Usually did my homework on the bus!

I feel like this idea, of later start times for HS students, has been kicking around since I was in high school in the 80s-90s, and never gains traction.

My kids bus ride is only 20 minutes and he STILL has to get there at 6:30. School starts by 7:20.

7:24 in Westfield! Which in retrospect is such a weird start time.

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7:30 home room. 7:31? Go to a different room, and get a detention for being late.

My high school used to start at 8, but they switched it recently so that it starts between 8:30 and 9. I was really happy to see it (though sad I never got to enjoy it).

I don’t think people tend to get up much earlier than in other states though.

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In NZ, its a 8:50-9am start, at least at public schools.

Unfortunately for the students of Massachusetts, we just spent about 2 years learning that public perception of education focuses primarily on the schools' role as babysitters, not what's best for the students.

My school started at 7:30 in PA :(

Public workers should have never been given collective bargaining rights. This is something even FDR agreed on and it’s probably a big reason private sector unions didn’t look as appealing. When you go on strike every 3 years looking for a 20% increase it tends to leave a sour taste in people’s mouths. It would be one thing if they had some form of accountability but they don’t. Bad teachers, cops, firefighters all get to keep their jobs and their performance is not measured.

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It would be a good move for sure!

One of the few good things the admin at the high school my wife teaches at has done in the past few years is to move the start time back by an hour.

It’s far better for students and far better for teachers

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The Saudis?

Maybe Lowell? Lowell is a former mill city like Haverhill. I currently live here without a car and love how walkable it is by the river and canals with urban pathways (see northern canal walkway). There's also great food, from 5$ breakfasts to an array of different Asian options. There's lots of great community organizations to get involved in (Lowell makes, Litter Krewe, LTC community programming, CMAA, Mill City Grows, etc.). That said, Lowell does have a reputation. Your comfort level may not align with it.

I love all the other cities on your list! I would also add Salem. It has a cute downtown, great museums (PEM!), and ocean access. You can also get easily to Boston with the commuter rail. One of the downsides/upsides is that Salem becomes witch city in October. There's a lot of people and traffic.

My highschool and middle school (same school) experience was all after columbine and shit heads had latched onto the incorrect idea that those guys were outcasts and part of some edgy group. Like in middle school some recent grad decided to just stand outside in a trenchcoat and gasmask. By college swatting and all that was a bigger thing. Saying the school is locked down is meaningless to me without more context.

Oh also we would lock down for so many things besides that. Anytime someone came off route two with cops in tow or anything happened on devens that's a lockdown. bear nearby? Soft lockdown.

To be fair, sunrise in Massachusetts is earlier than most states due to how far East we are in our time zone.