Recent comments in /f/philadelphia

rossdowdell t1_je5721a wrote

Reply to comment by oliver_babish in Amen Brown has survived another ballot challenge. But the judge also cited ‘serious concerns’ about his financial disclosures. by ADFC

Yes, it was. For unfortunately obvious reasons.

My argument was not fleshed out due to time constraints. Occasionally, I work.

Jeff Brown may be behind the action, but perception often supercedes reality. Do not give Amen Brown any opening to be seen as persecuted.

Amen Brown has zero chance to win. Let the dead rot quietly.

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TheBSQ t1_je56ftw wrote

Reply to Student, 15, shot and killed blocks from Simon Gratz High School in Nicetown, police say by JBizznass

I take my young kids to playgrounds almost every day, and one thing that you notice is just how different the parenting vibe can be from one playground to the next.

When little kids play they’re not terribly self-aware. In their excitement, they can knock other kids over. Or they’ll see a kid with a toy they like and want to take it and play with it. Or they may slide down a slide without waiting for the other kid to get off, or they may stand at the bottom of the slide, preventing others from going down.

My favorite parks are the ones where the parents don’t obsessively hover, trying to micro manage every step their kid takes, but are still present enough to step in when these things happen and teach kids about being mindful of others, sharing, patience, courtesy, and kindness.

And it’s amazing to watch as the kids grow up in these communities to the point where parents no longer need to step in. The kids have learned courtesy, patience, kindness, etc. and they do it on their own.

My least favorite are the “feral kids” playgrounds where parents don’t do this, and their kids don’t learn courtesy, empathy, kindness, and self-control.

At these places bigger kids still knock over little kids, still don’t understand not hogging equipment, and still engage in disruptive behavior that ruins the ability of other kids to enjoy and use the playground, if they’re not causing outright physical injuries.

They’re not bad kids.

They don’t act out of malice, they just never learned how their actions negatively affect others, and were never taught to control their own behavior to lessen that negative effect on others. They’re just out there doing whatever they want to do, and it just doesn’t really click that they’re negatively affecting others, the same way someone setting off fireworks in the streets because it’s fun probably isn’t asking themselves if those fireworks are waking up a sleeping baby in a nearby house and making life miserable for that baby’s parents, or triggering a vet’s PTSD.

They’re having fun, and it may even seem unfair to them that they’re supposed to refrain from doing something they like because others are bothered. They often feel like they are the victim and are being treated unfairly.

Like, they notice that the other kids weren’t reprimanded, but they don’t get that it’s because the other kids didn’t do the bad thing. They just see “I got yelled at, but they didn’t. That’s unfair.”

But the other aspect that’s kind of sad (but also annoying) is how desperate for attention these “feral” kids are.

they’ll notice that you praised your kid (“good job! You went down the slide all by yourself!”) and these other kids will then follow you and your kid around doing stuff and asking for your praise, insist on playing with you, begging for your constant attention.

And, of course, you’re polite, and tell them good job and all that, but they’ll keep getting more and more intrusive, even pushing your own kid down, trying to get them out of your attention, and demanding you give them attention over your own kids. your own kid is crying, or hurt, while they’re going “look at me, look at me.”

And through it all you can see the parent sitting off on the other side, just staring at their phone. And if an incident escalated enough, or someone reaches out to the parent, the reaction is typically to scold, threaten to hit, or to outright hit the hit for being bad.

But one thing you notice is the kids are rarely told what was bad, or how to be good. All they know is they were doing whatever they wanted for a long period of time, and then they got punished, sometimes physically, and the reason given is “because I told you so,” “you respect your mother,” etc. no logic. No lessons on empathy. Just authoritarian power. Might makes right.

(And it’s sad to see them so desperate for attention, but when they do finally get it, it’s just negative and disciplinary.)

you see these kids imitate that in their own interactions using threats and hitting to stop behavior in others that they don’t like. I’ve even had kids try to play make believe with me where they want me to pretend my kid is their kid and they saw it be bad and want to hit the kid. And you’re like, “uh…we’re not playing a game where you hit my kid, and who the fuck are your parents because I think CPS should look into your home life.”

so you see these patterns forming. No one teaching courtesy, patience, sharing, or how one’s actions affect others. You just do whatever you want. And if you don’t like what someone else does, and/or feel disrespected, you stop it with physical force, and conversely, you do whatever you want, until someone stops you with physical force. And when told to stop, they feel it’s unfair, like they’re the victim.

And when you spend years watching this happen in other children as you raise your own, the stories you hear from teachers, or the incidents you hear about if young teens attacking someone or trashing a store, it all kinda fits.

It’s that same “feral kids at the playground” experience, but with teens / young adults let loose in the world. Same so what you want, don’t care how it affects others, solve disputes with force. Same shit.

And, of course, you understand how this carries into schools and how one of the biggest difference between a “good” school and a “bad” one is what percentage of the kids were raised with kindness, and which didn’t learn. And it only takes a tiny percentage to disrupt a classroom.

and so just like how there’s certain playgrounds I avoid, there’s schools I also avoid, and it’s for similar reasons. It’s not really about facilities, funding, etc. it’s about which kids are you surrounding your kids with.

And you see it so young.

Like, my wife and I saw a neighbor’s kid, probably age 3, run out of the house with a giant butcher’s knife, in a diaper, screaming “I’ll fucking kill you” to his older sibling. No way am I sending my kid to school with that kid!

There’s this crucial window, like ages 2-5, where how you shape a child is so important. And sometimes it’s not till like 8-10 where you really see the negative aspects coming out.

And so when I hear about how schools need more resources to deal with problems, or there needs to be more after-school programs, I think that’s all well and good, and I support it. Let’s try everything.

but there’s a part of me thinks the real interventions are needed at those very early ages. After that, it’s bandaids and mitigations. It’s marginal and incremental benefits. The real work needs to happen young. Like even universal pre-k is already late enough where you’re dealing with consequences.

And ultimately, nothing will really work until what’s happening inside that home changes.

And sometimes it’s not even really that parent’s fault. Sometimes they themselves are really young, or tired, or stressed out, or just parenting by mimicking how they themselves were parented (my mom hit me and I turned out fine!) Maybe helping parents with incomeX resources, etc. can help, but I think we can’t neglect the underlying ways the kids are being socialized and say it’s just about support and money.

It’s made harder since parents are very defensive when it comes to advice on how to better raise their kids. So how the fuck do you change that?! Like, some hippie/yuppie person coming in and teaching about love and mindfulness. The “be quiet or I’ll whoop your ass” parents are gonna roll their eyes at that shit.

And the frustrating part is any time there’s a video of some kids trashing a store or disrupting a classroom, half the comments are basically insinuating these kids need a beat down, with commenters explaining that their parents would have whooped their ass if they acted that way.

And, it’s like, part of the problem is that’s probably exactly how these kids were raised, that parental beatings are the only discipline they know. And they also know that teachers, strangers, etc. likely won’t do that, or will get in trouble if they do, so essentially the only punishment they know is off the table, which means they’re free to do whatever.

So, it’s kinda fucked up because that discipline style is a huge part of why they feel free to be terrible, but it’s also the only style they respond to. It’s a big part of the cause but they’re already so messed up and broken, the better methods that work on unbroken people probably won’t sway them.

That window to teach them properly already passed.

And even more, the thing that was engrained early (be good in front of your parent or you’ll get beat) means they often don’t do this in front of their parents, which leads the parent to conclude that their parenting style works, leaving them flabbergasted when their “good” kid gets in trouble because parental beatings as the only guide-rails towards shitty behavior may work when parents are present and paying attention, but do nothing when parents are not present or not paying attention.

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