Recent comments in /f/philosophy
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it24zf2 wrote
Reply to comment by Maker623 in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
“You are Bob” = “Your name is Robert Smith. You were born 35 years ago in Alabama, and you were 25 before you ever met someone from outside the state. When you were in high school, you heard a genre of music you friends didn’t listen to, for the first time. You liked it. When you tried to share it with your friends, they beat you up. When you were a kid, you didn’t really like football all that much, but social norms say you’re not valid if you don’t like football. So you forced yourself to pretend you like it. Your friends still bring up that “crazy Chinese song” you showed them that one time 20 years ago, and make fun of it, adding more and more racist caricatures about Chinese people to the story year after year (when the song was actually Korean).
You know you can’t leave Alabama, because no one from your town can. Everyone believes this, believes they’re better off staying, believes that anyone who wants to leave is crazy, a traitor. Your parents wouldn’t let you go to college. You ended up following in the same sort of aimless jobs they did their whole lives. Nothing around you excites you — not like the videos you watch online, in secret. If anyone knew about them, you’d never be able to show your face outside again. Society teaches you to be ashamed of sex, though your male friends are always sharing sexual videos and saying abusive things about women, and their wives are forced to put up with it, because their mothers told them that the only alternative is to be single, and that’s the worst thing ever. But your videos aren’t even sexual, so why are you ashamed? They’re just different types of music that your friends don’t understand. Places in the world that you can’t travel to, because you’re stuck in Alabama. Documentaries about interesting things that happened in history, in distant parts of the world. Why is it wrong to like these? Why should they hurt you for it?
You don’t know why. You just know that they will.
You just know that it’s wrong for Bob from Alabama to want to travel to Poland or Peru. You know that it’s wrong for Bob from Alabama to like music from Korea or Romania. You know that it’s wrong to want to wear colors besides grey. You know that it’s wrong to not want to watch football. It’s wrong to drink wine instead of beer, or to not drink at all.
All of these things that don’t seem wrong… well, they aren’t wrong objectively. They’re just wrong for you because you were born as Bob in Alabama.
And you’ve been taught by your town all along that these things are not for you.”
“Well, I’m actually not Bob from Alabama” is one attempt at breaking free from those limits.
And it’s not necessarily a bad one.
Moving to another city and changing your name, and lying about where you’re from does not necessarily mean perjuring yourself if it comes to that.
(See also — about a billion crime dramas where the red herring is the smooth, well-set, probably mafia-tied businessman whose lies have nothing to do with the crime at hand — what he’s really trying to hide is that until two years ago, he was Bob from Alabama.)
Making an online persona where you can live a different life is also not a bad outlet, though it doesn’t solve the real issue.
The real issue is that it is okay for that person to want to do those things, no matter where they were born.
And obviously, that’s a mild example.
SuperSirVexSmasher t1_it23grj wrote
Reply to comment by Gentlerwiserfree in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
Culture as in humans doing what humans do. Archaeology examines human culture, they do this by examining things like tools left behind. Culture is the thing that humans do. You get what I mean.
[deleted] t1_it232kv wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in [Peter Harrison] Why religion is not going away and science will not destroy it by BasketCase0024
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Gentlerwiserfree t1_it22txo wrote
Reply to comment by Lumpy-Passenger-1986 in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
None of them is “the truth”, every society is one limited perspective. To get a full, three-dimensional view, you have to combine them all, and discover even more views, that were never enshrined as anyone’s culture. Parable of the elephant.
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it22gnv wrote
Reply to comment by agmbio in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
Wikipedia is generally a good place to start
And it depends on what you mean by “liberalism” — freedom to do what?
Specifically on the topic of whether his ideas were freeing or repressive:
He believed in that sort of philosophy where everyone born into a group must be ideologically limited to the doctrines of that group, must not question those doctrines, must glorify those doctrines and through that glorification, work towards the advancement of the group. That dissenters from that doctrine should not be tolerated.
I am of the opinion that that undermines any claim towards liberality that one might attribute to him. But his time and place were so different from the present that if you understand his time, you can see how dissent was such a rare thing, and easy to condemn.
Again, context.
These labels like “liberalism” are really pointless unless you’re talking about one issue over a limited time-span. Freedoms often come at the expense of other freedoms. The thing Person A thinks of first when they hear the word “freedom” has everything to do with that individual’s priorities and circumstances in their surroundings.
[deleted] t1_it22dsc wrote
Reply to comment by Arthur_Leywin354 in [Peter Harrison] Why religion is not going away and science will not destroy it by BasketCase0024
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Gentlerwiserfree t1_it20vxk wrote
Reply to comment by midbse3 in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
Isn’t this a question for neurologists, not philosophers?
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it20uhp wrote
Reply to comment by Redrumdream in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
What’s the point of this discussion?
You’re trying to decide whether it’s “objectively” less bad…?
Why? To do what with?
There are reasons why there are such things as legal trials. One reason is to establish the facts of the case, and to make sure (with witnesses and evidence) that those facts are accurate. The other is to decide what should be done based on the laws. There’s a reason why laws will give a range of suggested penalties for things, not one absolute correspondence between people injured and time in jail, or what have you.
This reminds me of my response to the Argo problem. That is, “if you change the parts, how much do you have to change before it’s no longer considered the same ship?”
I think it always depends. To what practical purpose are you asking? What practical thing can you do only if it is the same ship?
I don’t think there can be such thing as “objectively, absolutely, the same object” — the object is made of a ton of smaller parts, anyway. How do you even draw the line and say “These things are one object, a Ship”, and “Those things are not one object, they are parts”? You only do it by practicality.
(tl;dr I am not a Platonist)
Capital_Net_6438 t1_it20jof wrote
Reply to comment by Gentlerwiserfree in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
So you’re familiar with some of the further intricacies of the Pluto development. That’s cool. Is it true that Pluto is considered a dwarf planet? If so, that makes the idea that Pluto is not a planet puzzling in a different way. Generally speaking, blank planets are planets, just as far as how English works. I gather the phrase or its elements work differently here.
I don’t see the relevance of multiple languages since the phenomenon (Pluto, thumb, red) is intralinguistic.
You say it’s not an issue of authorities but you elaborate by emphasizing how what happened with Pluto was not a decision. That puzzles me.
I think you’re right that it’s not a matter of authority. I think the international astronomical union could look at the data, make some calculations, and make a false inference. I believe that’s how our concept of planet works. (Unlike say the supreme court’s interpretations of some legal issue, which arguably are dispositive.)
The thing that is distressing to me is how the theoretical adjustments can impact paradigmatic cases.
Don’t know what you mean by a tipping point of human biology. The number example had occurred to me. I gather you think you know that 5 is a number. Isn’t it possible that mathematicians concluded an annual convention just yesterday where they reassessed - as they do every year - how math should be understood? One of their conclusions was that 5 is not a number. It never has been. I assume the proper attitude isn’t to waive that hypothetical assertion out of hand, right? You should go look at the data, inferences etc to see if the whole new theory works. Which I gather is what the astronomers did for Pluto and what I could do for the thumb.
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it1zxum wrote
Reply to comment by SuperSirVexSmasher in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
When did “culture” start to mean “conspicuous consumption” as opposed to “art”?
I think I find something sublime in art quite often.
Whether it’s just a particularly skilled or intense or emotional performance of a song or a dance; or the character arc of a character I really care for in a piece of media with a longer story… art tends to be what gives me that feeling of just wanting to gasp.
Just wanting to… point at it and say, “This! This! Look at this! Just look at this!!”
I feel this way about things all over anyone’s highbrow-lowbrow spectrum, with no regard to those distinctions.
If what “culture” means to someone is the food selfies you post online to show off, I’d recommend picking up a book. Any book.
…. Stop me before I start talking about how sublime my favorite character is, but like…!!!
BasketCase0024 OP t1_it1zmlz wrote
Reply to comment by Arthur_Leywin354 in [Peter Harrison] Why religion is not going away and science will not destroy it by BasketCase0024
I think that's what the text aimed to convey in the beginning. While religion is on a decline in certain parts of the world, it's not true elsewhere. These other regions seemed to have maintained their religious identity (if not reinforced it even stronger) while witnessing scientific development.
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it1yzps wrote
Reply to comment by donotgogenlty in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
If you think neurodivergence is a bad thing? Stop.
Neurotypicality is probably a myth, anyway. I mean, how can people claim to know how a person 200 years ago would have gotten diagnosed as today, if that person were…
- born into a situation where they had no option but to work on the farm their whole life, and/or pump out babies?
- born into a richer family, but thought of as “the odd one”, so they get either sent off into some war to die, or thrown in a back office to just file papers and never say anything but “yes sir”?
- Made it out of either of the above situations by being creative in the arts or sciences, their eccentricities shrugged off as “genius”; if they’re remembered at all today, internet mind-blown types want to debate whether or not they were neurodivergent but serious biographers and doctors realize you can’t just do that about someone who isn’t there, etc.
It’s not like people throughout history had as many options as people today.
Behavior is influenced by literally millions of things — every sensory input, even the ones we’re not aware of… which then awaken (consciously or subconsciously) memories, which are recorded (again, millions of sensory inputs every second, which get recorded and how?) and accessed for reasons we don’y understand and can’t control…
And the emotions evoked by a memory you didn’t realize you were remembering, that comes up due to a smell you didn’t realize you were smelling, nudges your behavior slightly this or that way, for better or for worse, times a trillion.
It’s like a pool table, but with as many balls as, well… atoms in your body.
“Behavior issues” in the past few years, like more public fights and loudness and rudeness comes from the spread of the belief that if you have any standards whatsoever, you’re a snob and a bad person.
(Signed, someone who’s legitimately autistic/neurodiverse/whatever word you want to use, and moved to the other side of the planet to be where people don’t do that rubbish. So don’t blame neurodiversity for assholes.)
sia09sia t1_it1yxca wrote
Reply to comment by Arthur_Leywin354 in [Peter Harrison] Why religion is not going away and science will not destroy it by BasketCase0024
Sine time is linear and is moving forward, the change is progressive( let's assume) i would take that as how it's supposed to function and exactly how world does. In a progressive fashion. Now in terms of a religious debate, how is progression considered as a destructive thing? Shouldn't people rather learn to adapt to different social circumstances while keeping their religious zeal the same or how do we incorporate both?
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it1y34r wrote
Reply to comment by Capital_Net_6438 in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
Isn’t this a signified/signifier thing?
I’ve heard of an example about two languages both having a word that more or less means “stool” and a word that more or less means “chair”, but then there’s some kind of seat where one would call it a stool and the other would call it a chair…
Either way, it’s not an issue of authorities.
The “authorities” didn’t decide that Pluto wasn’t a planet. Scientists discovered a celestial body far out in the universe that changed a lot of the models they were operating on, and when they tried to make new models — which are necessary and useful for understanding a lot of things, and for formulating new experiments to learn more things — they realized Pluto didn’t fit.
There’s a book, called “How I killed Pluto and why it had it coming” or something cheesy like that, that’s by the actual scientists involved.
As for colors… define “a color” and “not a color”. Could physicists discover some new aspect of light particles that makes primary colors so much more fundamentally different from secondary colors that it has to change even how these are taught to 4 year olds? I guess it’s possible.
It’s also possible for the evolution of human biology to fall over some tipping point, or for climate change to affect standard air pressure, or something so that the line between “red” and “infrared”, or between “violent” and “ultraviolet”, changes.
But short of that, “green is no longer a color” seems as likely as “five is no longer a number”.
Gentlerwiserfree t1_it1xaca wrote
Reply to comment by Major_Pause_7866 in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
> Nurtured, taught, educated
> Trained, Indoctrinated
The mobile app won’t let me reply to your post in any decent way, but these things are opposites.
Opposites don’t always come in twos.
There are three prongs here.
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Basic observation -> basic assumptions/hypotheses about causality coming from just what that one individual can see with the naked eye, without building off of anyone else’s experiences.
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Schooling and indoctrination -> A set interpretation of the past imposed on individuals by society. Mistakes are enshrined as truth because they confirm the biases of some decision maker (that decision maker can be an individual leader, or can just as easily — more often — be a crowd/the majority).
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Actual education means ruthlessly questioning beliefs and refusing to accept confirmation bias. It means ruthlessly breaking down inherited packages into the smaller blocks that make them up, and questioning who put those blocks together into that package, and why, and whether that system is still functioning, etc.
So if you stop at 2, or if you accept this idea that 2 is “reason” — that 2 is the limit of what “reason” can mean — then of course, “reason” isn’t going to get you much further than 1.
But 2 isn’t reason.
Arthur_Leywin354 t1_it1wk3v wrote
Reply to [Peter Harrison] Why religion is not going away and science will not destroy it by BasketCase0024
There definitely is a decline of religion though. Science doesn't have to destroy it, because religion can be destroyed through progressive social changes.
madshjort t1_it1vemk wrote
Reply to [Peter Harrison] Why religion is not going away and science will not destroy it by BasketCase0024
Quick, informative read. Rather one sided pragmatist view of what should come next. I could have wished for reflection on if there has been some sort if qualitative change in the relation between science and religion and indeed if the authors standpoint is a result of such a shift.
[deleted] t1_it1s63t wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Philip Kitcher argues that morality is a social technology designed to solve problems emerging from the fragility of human altruism. Morality can be evaluated objectively, but without assuming moral truths. The view makes sense against a Darwinian view of life, but it is not social Darwinism. by Ma3Ke4Li3
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philosopal t1_it1ifo9 wrote
Reply to comment by SuperSirVexSmasher in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
I think what you experienced is a sense of awe and I don’t think it’s strange at all. I think it’s wonderful and restorative. For example, authors like Brooke McAlary talk about how it can rejuvenate us and help ease climate anxiety.
When it comes to death, let’s just say circumstances made me aware of my impending non-existence since I was a kid. It’s shocking at first, the idea that someday you would stop existing. Over time I came to see death as part of life. Living beings make up less than 0.1^1000% of matter in the universe (stat is just to make a point), and of that small percent, we somehow have the chance to be self-aware and sentient. Maybe this can’t last forever, but I’m just grateful to be on the ride.
Because of my love of life, I think I wouldn’t look at my death. I know it’s coming, but I’d rather spend my time living life with my loved ones and favourite passions. My life philosophy is to savour my time, and the good and bad experiences that come with it, so I’d do the same if I knew my death was coming soon. I probably would think about my death only to enhance my gratitude for the experiences I’ve had.
What about you?
[deleted] t1_it1ie0h wrote
Reply to comment by philosopal in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
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KeitaSutra t1_it1h5kj wrote
Reply to comment by undivided-assUmption in Ethics of Nuclear Energy in Times of Climate Change: Escaping the Collective Action Problem by CartesianClosedCat
Recycling the waste with fast reactors isn’t economical right now because uranium prices are so cheap.
It’s perfectly safe. SNF usually sits in a cooling pool for a few years and then is moved into dry casks shielded by steel and concrete. Has never killed a single person. Transporter all the time and extremely safe.
HowTheWestWS t1_it1g6ya wrote
Reply to comment by Butt_Putnam in The Philosophical Underpinning of “War Crimes” Statutes by ADefiniteDescription
We’ve let the violent patriarch go on for far too long. Nobody should be able to cause war in any part of the Earth. It should literally be an immediate arrest for anyone that does it regardless of their position!
undivided-assUmption t1_it1f4ex wrote
Reply to comment by KeitaSutra in Ethics of Nuclear Energy in Times of Climate Change: Escaping the Collective Action Problem by CartesianClosedCat
If that wastes safe, we'd be finding ways to profit from the toxic. Not arguing over shipping and holding costs. If, chemistry can't turn nuclear byproducts into cash, and Noone wants radioactive radiation transported through their yard, down their streets, or through their cities, is it really safe?
Amazingcommentty t1_it10uwg wrote
Reply to The phenomenology of dementia | As memory slips away, it can take with it language, knowledge and even selfhood. But something beautiful can still remain – the ability to live in a simplified present. by IAI_Admin
I’ve known people with dementia to be very fluid and even willing to make art almost like a child. She dies within 6 months after that. It was such a pleasure to meet her. Maybe those more prone to their ego are tormented in the moments they need to know who they are and others who never really knew or didn’t have a strong idea of their self slip more pleasantly into the moment like the lady I met.
SuperSirVexSmasher t1_it258jg wrote
Reply to comment by philosopal in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 17, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
I would look.