Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

JezCon t1_j1nh696 wrote

You work with what you got.

5

rhapsodygreen OP t1_j1nh6jc wrote

Honestly, if any one knows where this post should go lmk

−5

Direct_Ambassador_10 t1_j1nhf54 wrote

She might need a second coat? But in all seriousness I think this is fine...? If you can't find one why not make it and save everyone some time in the process.

48

Dougwasneverfunny t1_j1nicnl wrote

They should get into warhammer and next year they can paint a more convincing black person.

14

BananaButtock t1_j1niibr wrote

Look for statues of “My Lady of Częstochowa.” IIRC, she’s darker-skinned.

107

chalisa0 t1_j1niw7q wrote

Haha. I think it's awesome!

−2

Akieboy t1_j1nlbm4 wrote

If they Google "black Madonna" there are a lot of them for sale online.

121

jlnxr t1_j1nluzs wrote

Replying to Direct_Ambassador_10 (#1,061,273)

It's typical for Jesus/Mary/biblical scenes to be portrayed in different styles based on the culture of the group. "White Jesus" (or Mary) is just a reflection of European culture. My understanding (raised Catholic) is that it's perfectly acceptable to make them whatever race, whatever style clothing, time period, etc. if done in a respectful matter. Advisable even, if it benefits the faith.

That would be mainstream churches that allow image veneration though. Some smaller sects are of the "plain cross" types where images are frowned upon. There was a giant conflict about images in the Byzantine Empire and the image venerators won out, only to have some protestants revisit the issue much later.

18

Akieboy t1_j1no32w wrote

Replying to rhapsodygreen (#1,061,687)

The black Madonna in Europe dates back to at least the 12th century. They are most commonly found in the Spanish style. True African madonnas have been unfortunately mostly ignored outside of Africa.

30

brainburger t1_j1nokmj wrote

Replying to jlnxr (#1,061,717)

> is that it's perfectly acceptable to make them whatever race, whatever style clothing, time period, etc. if done in a respectful matter.

Hmm. It does make one wonder about the prospect of other black historical figures portrayed by white actors, and so on. We wouldn't accept a white Nelson Mandela.

−10

ryan7251 t1_j1nqwc7 wrote

ironic you can't find a dark skinned mary

1

Taleya t1_j1nr8a0 wrote

No they didn't, they un-whitewashed

−11

Jonny_Entropy t1_j1nsi84 wrote

Mary wasn't black though. She was Judean, which would have resembled middle Eastern. If she existed, of course.

21

The_Countess t1_j1nsk3r wrote

Replying to Odd_Imagination_6617 (#1,062,313)

No, that's actually exactly how religion works.

European mary is white because most Christians there are white.

Ethiopian mary is black because most of the Christians there are black.

Korean's have a Korean Jesus, and I'm assuming their mary similarly looks Korean.

In reality, if she ever existed, she would have look middle eastern.

The only time you see a disconnect there is when a religion was brought to a area by a outside influence (like European powers to much of Africa)

3

RogueStudio t1_j1nsms4 wrote

Oof...personally I'd keep my trap shut and let my parents do to their own belongings as they like, but, you already put it on the internet where all the fools, critics and keyboard analysts can talk about your misfortune. Have a good holiday lol 😂

1

Bubbagumpredditor t1_j1nsv7b wrote

Replying to brainburger (#1,062,029)

Well, that's also a character where his ethnicity is a main point of his story.

Like a black guy playing Winston Churchill might not be historically accurate, but his ethnicity is not a main point of the story.

2

ElLocoS t1_j1nvp1v wrote

Brazilian patron saint is "Nossa Senhora Aparecida", and she is basicly Mary appearing as a black woman with beautifull blue dress. Look it up. You can find hundreds online.

22

[deleted] t1_j1nwg8j wrote

Good thing fictional characters can look like whatever we want

−1

Tainted-Archer t1_j1o384d wrote

Aren’t most statues of Mary white-facing considering she was from the Middle East?

−2

rhapsodygreen OP t1_j1o3ldv wrote

Replying to Tainted-Archer (#1,063,867)

You mean "whitewashing", "white-facing" would me you took a statue that was intended to be a different color by the artist and and took paint or makeup or something to make the statue look fair-skinned

−13

Agent-Gosdepa-USA t1_j1oecrp wrote

Imagine a comment section if someone put a white paint on black figure

13

jlnxr t1_j1ofg3t wrote

Replying to brainburger (#1,062,029)

Well sure it would be pretty offense to have a white Nelson Mandela, but people seemed cool with a black Alexander Hamilton. Turns out, context matters.

In any case if you believe Jesus is literally God incarnate his race is probably not that important, even if historical Jesus (which even secular scholars generally agree existed) was obviously a middle eastern jew.

2

Jsimpson059 t1_j1oi2ow wrote

Replying to brainburger (#1,062,029)

Nelson Mandela is a modern historical figure, we literally have pictures of likeness to go off of, living memory of him, his ethnicity is an undeniable part of his identity, we dont know anything about Jesus other than an accounts by authors after the fact compiling his teachings from oral to written accounts.

There is a reason why the western personifcation of God and Zues have similar designs.

Also during the reniassance there would be other political redesigns such as the more modern look of Jesus being based off of I shit you not Cesare Borgia.

2

RafaNedel t1_j1on38g wrote

Search for Nossa Senhora Aparecida

2

cdnsalix t1_j1oualf wrote

Justin Trudeau has entered the chat.

3

wholesomeletters t1_j1ouobf wrote

tbh I like it. If you cant find someone like you to look up to make them yourself. I imagen alot of cartoon/anime/manga stuff got made like this. Like Sailor Moon? Hercreator was a young woman with no friends and made the sailorwarriors like someone she wants to be friends with.

2

cloudubious t1_j1ovyv7 wrote

Did... did they have to strip her al la Barbie dolls to paint her? Seems... a bad idea.

1

wefelltogether t1_j1p5ryg wrote

I’m not Christian or anything but I think that looks pretty dope actually. However insensitive it may be, at least your parents don’t give a fuck enough to do it.

0

Danzarr t1_j1peuqp wrote

for some reason, popo comes to mind.

1

coded_artist t1_j1pghaz wrote

Its almost like their religion was used to enslave them.

−2

brainburger t1_j1prb9o wrote

Replying to jlnxr (#1,065,301)

> Well sure it would be pretty offense to have a white Nelson Mandela, but people seemed cool with a black Alexander Hamilton. Turns out, context matters.

As you might be aware its not the practice of cross-racial portrayal that is problematic in itself. It's not quite the same when a black actor plays a white person, as when a white actor plays a black person. The difference is that 'blackface' alludes to the systematic oppression of black people, and 'minstrel' performing. There is not the same connotation when it is the other way around.

In the case of Jesus, there is some attempt at erasure going on, certainly historically. It seems white Christians often don't like the prospect of being saved by a middle-Eastern Jew so they tend to obscure the fact in Christian art. (or at least that is a valid uncharitable interpretation) . In contrast we would not find it acceptable to present an alternate history of South Africa in which universal suffrage was obtained using the lifelong activism and sacrifice of a white man.

−4

brainburger t1_j1pri31 wrote

Replying to Bubbagumpredditor (#1,062,557)

> Well, that's also a character where his ethnicity is a main point of his story.

The Jewishness of Jesus is a very important aspect of his story though. That is erased by the typical European portrayal of him.

3

brainburger t1_j1ps83k wrote

Replying to Jsimpson059 (#1,065,638)

> Nelson Mandela is a modern historical figure, we literally have pictures of likeness to go off of, living memory of him, his ethnicity is an undeniable part of his identity, we dont know anything about Jesus other than an accounts by authors after the fact compiling his teachings from oral to written accounts.

That does occur to me, but we have a pretty good idea what Jesus should look like, and he is often portrayed in a way which we know cannot be accurate. In the past when people did not travel as easily some mis-representation is understandable. It makes sense for people in the UK, say, to portray the fruit from the Adam and Eve story as an apple, as the audience wouldn't know what a fig, or many of the other candidate fruits looked like.

I do think, in all seriousness, it is time we stopped making new portrayals of Jesus as a white man. He wasn't a white man. It really shouldn't cause any problems to show him as a middle Eastern Jew.

>I shit you not Cesare Borgia.

TIL thanks.

−1

brainburger t1_j1pspc5 wrote

Replying to pogotc (#1,062,421)

Generally the portrayal of historic or traditional black characters, by white actors is now firmly frowned-upon. Jesus is treated as a special exception. This is probably because there are just so many portrayals of him as white that it has normalized if for most Christians. It is worth considering whether its time for this to change in new portrayals. Religion should not be immune to advances n morality.

1

Endetzero711 t1_j1py680 wrote

Jesus and virgin Mary are all the colours, merry christmas

1

ninja_toffe t1_j1pz33p wrote

Wait so your Disneying religious figures God damn

0

1redditname t1_j1pzxpb wrote

In Sicily there is a majestic cathedral dedicated to ‘Madonna del Tindari’, take a look it’s stunning!

1

Exciting_Ad_3510 t1_j1qdj0d wrote

Color only matters to mankind... it means nothing to our Heavenly Father

2

Girly_Shrieks t1_j1qdn82 wrote

You specify your parents are African. So why do they observe a religion which is meant to control? Specifically as a tool to further break down black people over the last couple hundred years?

−4

Lilluzzo t1_j1qgg7p wrote

Hi, search for "Madonna di tindari"

1

Fun_Cow_8882 t1_j1qj5j4 wrote

That’s cause it doesn’t work or exist fool, Virgin Mary was white let that sink in and remember it.

1

Eyeseeyous t1_j1qj71j wrote

No harm done since there is no god. Carry on. Happy holidays.

1

chaotichistory t1_j1qks8z wrote

I work retail and the first year we carried a full size dancing Santa we only got a white Santa in so someone bought one and used wood stain to color it a lovely yet streak filled bronze. Then it broke and for some reason we took it back.

1

epicmenio t1_j1ql03s wrote

Just like in the bible, everything is fixed by the writer or by situations, or even the translator.

1

tesseract4 t1_j1qlwnj wrote

Replying to Shot-Dog-3824 (#1,064,531)

Mary, if she was actually a real person who lived, was certainly not white, so I don't see how portraying her as other than white could be "sacreligious". I mean, the rules of religion are all made up anyway, so if you wanna go that route you certainly can, I just figured you wouldn't want to acknowledge that.

1

azdoggnaro t1_j1r1k3j wrote

Saint Calogero is a saint celebrated in southern Italy. He is normally depicted as being black (I say it this way because it’s not certain if he was or not). There are massive festivals and all kinds of statues dedicated to him.

1