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come back when Mars has an atmosphere - already stripped away... cos no magnetosphere :P

Circular orbits at higher altitudes actually require less velocity to maintain the orbit, although they require more energy to reach

You know... the balloon could have two way radio. It could have sent data out as well... even to simple things like cell phone towers.

Yeah, it seems a simple enough test

“Can you replace the object with an inert rock of the same mass, and expect basically no significant difference in trajectory in the next 6 months?”

If yes, you’re in orbit and therefore space, otherwise your vehicle is relying on either lift or buoyancy and is therefore not in space

No kidding. I can guarantee them that say, the US for example, isn't going to give up its sovereignty in 40 or so years. It won't even give up military hegemony and barely even joined the UN.

That article and comments like this are obvious attempts at disinformation and sowing doubt.

I consider space to start whenever you're able to float around, I'm not sure how far up that is though.

Wonder if JUICE will be able to detect it. They say it is hard to distinguish it from regular ice from far away, so perhaps not?

So like humans are all part of the same planet? Interesting.

Or at any rate that's what we'd like them to think.

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Not a ton, but apparently these have gone unnoticed before.

In pretty much every type of fictional media, they ignore what a colossally bad idea it would be to actually visit a planet with any kind of life without years or decades of research ahead of time. The microbes or other life there could eat us for lunch, or we could carry ones there that would decimate their life. It would be the whole Indians/smallpox thing but potentially much worse. So if we ever go for real, we’d want to be sure that was handled. But as most people are saying, leave it to the robots.

The balloon that was shot down off the coast of south Carolina is still reported by US intel as Chinese. The three they shot down after were later reported to be private or research and not from China.

Could it be ice V?

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You seem like you have some stuff to work through.

Now you want to talk bgp and egp? What pray tell is an imaginary internet point. Teach me.

I'm not interested in metaphors, or similes, or analogies, or euphemism. I am discussing the state of the art in a number of current technologies, and how they apply to the real world around us. At the same time, I'm also talking about a broken sociology, based on nothing but old stupidity. Just because you think drudging for a living is the natural state of human beings, does not mean that the rest of us have to agree with you. Edit

Still, if you were a Chinese intelligence officer that was aware that the U.S. military had been shadowing your receiver during its overflight, how much would you trust the information you were allowed to acquire?

Agreed. Competition is the only thing that will actually drive it. Decades of genuine altruism have delivered orderly nothing.

Imagine caring about how many imaginary internet points a person has...

Nothing. We need to GTFO. Hopefully we can get far enough from the crazy. But really, spreading out is the way to go. Waiting for a milestone or consensus is a bad idea.