Apple : ok, anyway...

Sure Apple are assholes but this is just a joke.

We have been screaming for years that we need standard chargers so we don't need to buy a new with every single device and reduce e-waste And now Apple actually does something good to try and change ge this they get fined for it?

Fucking stupid if you ask me

Apple is checking their couch for the money to pay the fine.

Ok i get that we hate apple as acompany but i don't get why they are fined

Like they can sell what they want. Don't like it dont buy

I wonder if they also fine sex toy companies that don’t include chargers.

So basically a rounding error to Apple...

If apple cared about e-waste they would not make new products every year that have little difference from their predecessor.

19M? Lol. That’s the equivalent of me having to pay someone $.01 over the next 50 years.

LOL “decimal dust”

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Ironically most rechargable ones actually use universal Micro-USB chargers (which most have literally in a drawer somewhere or "the cord box"), unlike Apple and a few others with their unique ports compared to most devices. A vast majority of those do come with a charger for convenience, albeit a cheap one given not many toy companies roll in cash.

Most just use batteries (AA or AAA, most common in households), so I think only a select few toys would ever fall under that law as a violation.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

Who is worth more Apple or Brasil?

I’m pretty sure there must be some law (at least in some countries) that the product you sell must be functional by itself.

A phone is not really functional without a charger, so it could be illegal to sell it without it.

how much cash does apple have on hand again?
oh, right...

Well. Apple actually supplies a cable with their phones. Those cables plug into standard charging bricks. The newer ones actually come with usbc ends.

I could understand that people are upset when apple wouldnt supply a cable with their phones as thats the unique part.

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“the judge in charge of the case called the non-inclusion of chargers in phone purchases an "abusive practice" that "requires consumers to purchase a second product in order for the first to work." Apple has been at odds with Brazilian authorities over the issue for a while now. In 2021, São Paulo consumer protection agency Procon-SP fined Apple around $2 million for removing the power adapter from the iPhone 12, telling the company that it was in violation of Brazil's Consumer Defense Code.”

Basically, consumer protection rights are different in every country

Brazil has a law stating all devices must come with a charger. The government told Apple before selling new iPhones; multiple times. Apple decided not to listen.

So, fuck Apple.

Brazil should of charged them 3 trillion dollars.

By "unique," I meant more the actual input end of the cord. Pretty much all chargers end with USB-C, but majority of devices had a micro USB for the actual device power input. Apple has a unique one that only works with Apple devices, don't think I've ever seen anything else use their type

If that is used for the Brazilian taxpayer then id say its a win for Brazil

Why would they fine them after the fact. Wouldn’t they know beforehand and refuse the sale?

E-waste?

What do you call Apple refusing to adapt USB C on their iPhones when everything else they fucking sell has USB C port to charge?

Answer: Apple believes themselves to be gods & people like you are blind by bullshit.

Yea yea, call it green washing all you want but removing the charger was an actually environmentally conscious decision. As well as removing the headphone jack adapter, as most people don’t really need them and it’s fairly cheap if needed. I have two, as well as two pairs of lightning EarPods I really don’t need. I won’t throw them out on principle.

I'm not sure you can actually measure a country's value but just for fun, their GDP is 1.9 trillion while Apple was valued at 3 trillion in January

I should be able to sell my stuff right? As long as you know what you're buying and there are no surprises.

That law makes no sense to me .

don’t get fooled by them outwardly stating they are “doing good”. if they really were in it for doing good they would have switched to usbc, no they are doing it for profits while pretending to save the environment.

No you can't sell stuff that doesn't work in most countries lol.

There are regulations so people can't sell broken shit.

I always wondered what would happen if apple just pulled out of one of these markets and let the politicians explain to the people why they can’t have an iPhone. It would be chaos

Really think about what you’re saying and how silly this all is. How are you going to sell an electronics product without any way to charge/keep it powered other than to buy an additional item.

I mean if their intent is to cut down on waste and product then at least include a voucher or something to acquire a charger if a customer needs one but to not have one at all as a option is plain ridiculous.

sadly i think apple most likely pre-raised the price of their iphone in brazil to offset this. no idea why brazil didn’t just outwardly ban iphones

And they gonna slap that fine away because it's nothing for them. It's like going to a dollar store for them

Must laws don't make sense.

I think issue is Apple blatantly chose disregard Brazil established laws. Apple disrespected Brazil & thought themselves to be above the law.

So, Brazil bitch slap Apple.

You know thats bs too so come on man . "Stuff that dont work " It works just fine just buy a charger

These sobs do 1000 wrong things and this is the one tgey take issue with. Some bs if you ask me

Slapped with a soft banana.

They’re like, we saved $100 million by just paying the fine. Let’s do it again.

It would if you were poor in a country where things like chargers can cost double due to import fees.

Not a valid comparison

One would argue that an average person would expect an electronic product like a cell phone to come with everything it needs to be operated normally. If it doesn't come with a charger, you cannot operate it normally.

It should come with a fucking charger or at least give you an option to opt out if you already have one.

Whos forcing you yo buy this crappy overpriced shitty phone thats made by slave labor

If they wanna sell their shit they should. Dont like it dont buy it.

Hmm fair point

Compra casada, a product that forces you to buy another product from the same brand - a crime in Brazil

Yes, the fine is not expensive for Apple, but they will be forced to sell phones with chargers around here

> Must laws don't make sense.

I mean most of them do. Might not make sense to you, but they're usually made to make sense. Usually.

I'm literally a consumer protection lawyer.

This is not the one thing people take issue with there's thousands of regulations in any given country to protect you mf.

Apple knew ahead of time cause they pay 100s of Millions in legal fees for every country and they just decided they don't care.

Poor people aint buying overpriced apple phones dude

So with your theory. If someone wants to sell meth “they should”?

you realize that people need a charger to use the phone?

Damn, so let me just buy something with no way to charge it if I didn’t already have a charger for it. This definitely isn’t creating more waste by forcing people to buy cheaper poorly made charging products, to which they will buy multiple of instead of only having the one properly made iPhone charger that would last the lifetime of the phone. You just blow in from stupid town?

Ypu knwo whats in the box . This ain't a surprise purchase.

And they do have an option to opt out its called not buying

Thats what the lawsuit and fine were about, apple not doing that.

If you have to argue apple=meth you have no point

Ridiculous

Fuck apple and fuck the bs laws if even a supposed lawyer can't justify them

All these companies cutting costs it's obvious we're heading for a rough patch in the economy

I don’t think its citizens would have appreciated that very much!

And one could argue that unless it has a big old DOES NOT COME WITH A CHARGER on the box or whoever is selling you the phone tells you that it doesn't come with a charger it might very well be a surprise that an electronic device that needs to be charged doesn't come with a way to charge it in the box like just about every other piece of consumer electronics out there.

You're basically arguing against consumer protections here, which is always very cool.

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Lets say I say I will sell you a car.

You buy it from me, pay me, and then once receive the car you realize it comes with no engine. Then I try to sell you the engine for more money.

I can totally see you suing me (and winning) unless I explicitly stated its an incomplete car and requires you to also purchase your own engine (or already have one).

GDP isn’t really an apples to apples comparison with a company’s valuation.

According to Reuters, Brazil’s YOY revenue from federal taxes alone (ie not including other sources of revenue) is $33.14B. It’s a bit hard to find hard figures on their total revenue combined with federal taxes

According to Statista, Apple’s 2021 revenue is $365.82B.

In other news prices for iphones in brazil increase in price to cover fines and a charger...

This is a good example and i agree with you here bc you can't trick or surprise people. But when you can see what's in the box and there is ko trick or surprise here then i have no problem with it

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But they are. I live in South America. If you go to the rural areas where people dont even have reliable electricity or even water, one thing they will have are smartphones, and many of them do have iphones.

I dont expect you to believe me, but I live here and see it first hand.

So here, what I think would be surprising for most people is to buy a phone and have it not come with a charger.

does this mean purchasers of an iPhone get a free charger or is this just money collected by the gov?

You buy something spend 10 seconds to see whatsin the box . Plus tge employees will tell you and will sell you the charger

And this ain't costumer protection .just politicians and companies playing touch ass

I believe you but if you buy an iphone you cant complain to me about not having money for a charger. Just buy something cheaper which is what the rest of us do all the time.

If Brazil as a country was traded in shares on the stock market. You are saying apple could do a hostile takeover of Brazil.

It says it on the box

Other guy sounds like a standard tier Apple fanboy

A whole 19 million? Gee I hope that trillion-dollar company can afford it...

They pay this fine every year I believe under the pretense that it’s still cheaper than manufacturing chargers to have in the package with the phone

Why are you so upset about this exactly? The market is extremely mature and saturated at this point, majority of iPhone sales are going to people who already have iPhones so already have lightning cables, wireless charging, car adapters, etc.

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Agreed. They should ha e change to usb-c awesome ago. I was only referring the double standard of both complaining about including a charger and not including a charger

Such an americanist lol

I don't think anyone is fooled by Apple's game. This is simply Brazil calling them out on their BS

Brazil tax revenue was 33 Billion $USD, so I'm sure they will enjoy their 0.06% of additional funds.

For those wondering why 19M USD, it’s the equivalent of 100M BRL. For those wondering why it’s 100M BRL and not more, I have no idea lol

its 2022. Im sure people are happy to take anything they can.

Are you outraged Samsung doesn't ship chargers anymore either?

"Samsung believes the removal of earphones and charger plugs from our in-box device packaging can help address the growing e-waste problem and unnecessary duplication of these items."

https://www.samsung.com/uk/support/mobile-devices/why-does-samsung-not-include-a-charger-in-the-box/

It's an environmentally friendly decision that impacts a minority of buyers in both camps. Most people around Reddit seem pretty liberal about telling people to buy electric cars to save the environment but we draw the line on reducing e-waste?

The fine is calculated on past sales. If that value seems small it's because Apple doesn't sell many phones in Brazil, they are too expensive.

This doesn't mean Apple can pay that fine and keep selling phones without a charger, that would be contempt of court, a criminal case instead of the civil case it's now.

I'm sure they will be happier if Bolsonaro loses the election.

Lol, it’s going into someone’s pocket!

That's peanuts to Apple

thats up to the voters to decide. If he loses, then yes, by theory the majority will be happier.

If u changed that M to an B and handed them out WAY more often it would actually make a difference.

Probably why they offer them for sale, conveniently right next to the phones... 🤦‍♀️

you're right, next time I buy a puzzle I'll be sure to buy the excluded pieces as well... your logic is pretty shit

Mind blowing thought, you can buy one for $19 usd. I wouldn’t Recommend buying any other of apples chargers as they’re overpriced. If you didn’t get the memo from the iPhone 12, sorry, but it’s the 14. Samsung made the same move within 6 months. The packaging being much smaller should at least hint at the fact it’s not included, but it’s not like apple wasn’t up front with the change.

The lightning connector is a decade old. It’s fairly unlikely you don’t already have one somewhere. I do agree that it was stupid that apple chose to switch to USB-C at the same time as removing the psu without including an adapter, but the USB-C connector has also been standard on android for years, you really had to be living under a rock to not have owned a USB-C charger by now.

Phones aren’t damn puzzles. If this is your first smartphone, you’re a bit behind the curve.

Really? In the first half of my comment I clearly mention that I have a masters in economics and geopolitics with a PHD in comparisons, so it must be valid.

Apples value is supposed to represent the sum of all cash flow to the firm to an indefinite future.

GDP is just a single year. even if it was all years, it’s not the best comparison. It’s very difficult to make a comparison of worth.

1 year Revenue is probably closest to 1 year gdp.

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Incorrect. Also fix your keyboard.

You know what a metaphor is my man

Yeah, you better get out there and raise a fuss about how your cereal doesn't come with milk, Karen.

Honest question: does the phone come with the cable like everywhere else? If so you can use any charger you have lying around. It’s probably normal usb.

Not that I think it’s ok to not sell it with the charger but you’re not forced to buy one from them either.

That’s like 2 minutes of revenue

Lmao, u must be on apple’s payroll

Gdp and market cap measure two different things

Slapped? More like tickled.

Isn't it a good thing though if phones are not by default sold with chargers? Most iPhone users have already one or more chargers, so it would be a waste of material and costs to sell new models with another charger by default.

A simple policy that would assure that whoever is buying an iPhone is aware that the phone does not come with a charger and can purchase one if they like should be enough.

I'm here visiting Sao Paulo and went to the Apple store here just to see wtf is going on. They're selling the new iPhone Pro Max 14 at $2k, base memory, like holy shit.

They're already selling them at almost double there. Hell, the new iwatch ultra is $2k there, wtf.

I believe you're missing my point. Yes, the market is older for cables now but there is a massive difference in quality between a charging cord you buy on amazon vs an Apple manufactured one. When apple/samsung say they are no longer going to provide cords why would the average person who needs a new one spend 30$ on an official cable? They wouldn't, and as a result, they'll buy multiple 3rd party cables which are of much lower quality, will not last, and be added to the landfills. An apple or Samsung-produced cable will most likely last the entire life of the phone even when abused.

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You have to fine the more than the same fucking amount of adding them. That’s the only way this works. This is the equivalent of their website being down for an hour. Annoying to them, but it’s not gonna change anything.

Apple uses it's own lightning charger. It's not a standard USB/USB-C charger.

It does, yeah

But the principle of compra casada is that the consumer must not require another product from the same brand in order to use a product, so it doesn't matter if the consumer already has a charger

You could plug the USB into a computer, but you could argue that that's bad, since you're gonna get a slower charging speed than actual chargers. That bad experience could coerce the consumer to buy an actual Apple charger

The law protects the consumer, makes sure a company can't force you to buy two of its products. There are only two ways out for Apple, they either put a USB-C on the iPhone, or add the charger back

Never owned one and never will, not sure what that even has to do with anything in the first place ?

What are you on about?

The charger is USB-C, the connector on the phone is Lightning. In Brazil the USB-C/Lightning cable is included so you can plug it into any available charger which use USB-C

Then the court does not understand technology. You can use any USB-C charger and nobody forces anybody to get the one from Apple. The USB-C/Lightning charging cable is included in Brazil

If you round it to the nearest billion it's approx $0 billion

Yes, but this is Apple, and people need a reason to bash them, no matter how flimsy. I don't know anyone buying a new adapter either. Also Samsung doesn't ship chargers with their phones either, don't hear about them being fined either.

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Thank you for the clarification 👍

Why does anybody, including Brazil, care what accessories Apple provides with a phone?

Was Apple deceptive? Did they show a charger in the picture on the box?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

19 million is a rounding error for them. Great penalty.

Super boring

So more like a gentle touch rather than a slap

I really wish we could make them pay more, but atleast brazil is going to get some benefits from it

Not a good business practice if you have an ounce of respect for your customers

At least Govt does get something.

19M is like 000.3% of what Apple makes in a minute

What is that like $1 per iPhone in Brazil? They are just figuring out a number that apple will pay that won’t piss them off.

Drop in the bucket. $19 mil is prob still less than what they would have had to pay if they included chargers

That’s not a slap, that’s a hand-job with extra spit. They’ve saved far more than that not supplying them.

That's like six whole iphones

> does the phone come with the cable like everywhere else?

Yes it does.

You don’t have to buy an Apple charger though. iPhones work with any charger.

Forcing an accessory onto your customers who already have one is both wasteful and unnecessary.

JFC, less than pennies for them. Remember folks, if the consequence of breaking a law is a fine, all that means is that law is only for the poor.

Sounds like some politician needed to extort Apple for some money, but not so much money that anyone would care.

Anything electronic that is not made in Brazil is extremely expensive, because the import fees are excessive.

Before COVID, I remember hearing that if you wanted an iPhone over there, it was actually cheaper to fly to Miami (including a hotel stay for a few days) and buy one in the US than it was to buy it in Brazil.

"Slapped"? More like "Apples Balls Were Lightly Tickled with a $19 million fine"

It should just come with a coupon for a free charger if they don't want to package one. Some people need them some don't.

Which is why this ruling makes no sense to me.

They give you the cord which lets you plug into any usb-c power brick. My house has like 5 of them, some apple some not.

I don’t want another. It’s unnecessary e-waste. The planet dammit doesn’t need every single person who purchases an iPhone to be given another bloody piece of e-waste to go with it.

Maybe if that fine was multiplied by 10, it might actually convince Apple to change.

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It talked about chargers not being included. The cables are supplied. And Brazil talking about saving the planet while burning the Amazon, jeesh.

okay but now imagine you don't have a charging brick just handy at home, they all broke or you had to move to a new place and needed to restart from scratch. Now it becomes an issue of having to buy another product in order to use the thing you already bought.

"Apple static shocked with a $19 Million Dollar fine"

I think it’s bad they don’t include. All I’m saying is that you are not forced to buy one from them. So the consumer don’t require another product from the same brand in order to use the product. We also have that law in the EU and they could never do anything because of what I say.

I’m confused as to how this argument makes any sense.

Yes, if something that you need breaks, you need to purchase a new one.

How does that relate in any way to this situation?

It's not like that. Apple can of course pay for that, but it's 19M being lost and going to the trash. This is NEVER good for a company, it doesn't matter how rich the company is.

If the company is fined, it must have broken a law. Is there a law in Brazil stating that chargers must accompany a phone? That is quite random.

For people who are commenting that 19M is nothing for apple...

Apple can of course pay for that, but it's 19M being lost and going to the trash. This is NEVER good for a company, it doesn't matter how rich the company is.

That literally what happened to my coworker. She got kick out of her parent hiyse momntook her phone , she buys a new phone, a new samsung, usbc charger cant charge tvw phone now without buying one

Unless….. it’s rigged

Again, thats up to the voters to decide and not for non-Brazilians to come up with assumptions.

They probably saved 100 times that amount by not including chargers lol.

Lol, bolsonaro lover? How can you be such a fascist?

This was their argument, although they also switched the cable to USB-C at the same time as removing the power brick. So you can’t use the new cable with your existing chargers.

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Nope. But if thats what you believe I wont change your mind.

Pretty sure they have at least a +60% tax on imported electronics

That’s not what I believe.

I assume you're aware that this is because of taxes?

They besically paid for the right to do that lmao. It comes off more like a fee than a fine

Does not matter, its the internet and I dont know you

But Bolsonaro is a nazi.

Of course it is

Its not about having one and it breaks and replacing it.

Its about those who just plain don't have one.

You shouldnt have to buy a phone and then buy another product in order to charge that phone.

Steve Jobs turning in his grave

It will improve a bit when another judge fines them again for ignoring the court order.

It’s 2022.

People don’t have charging bricks still?

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