You just have to get used to the structured madness.

When we are "on foot walking around," we're not going to kill someone if we bump into them by accident because we moved in an unexpected way. Kindness is fine there.

Your definition of kindness may not be the same as mine. This will cause you to behave unpredictably. Unpredictability while driving a vehicle gets people killed. There are very strict rules for how traffic is supposed to flow, and there are very good reasons for those rules.

Kindness while driving means following the rules so everyone can get home safely.

You are exactly the kind of person that the people in this thread are raging about, and what's worse is that you're smug and high and mighty about being "kind."

Is that a joke? Please tell me this is a joke.

I can’t tell you how frustrating it is that so many drivers forget No. 2 completely; that is, of course, if they bother stopping, which is another conversation lol.

Those things you describe are not 4-way stops which is what this discussion is about. Traffic circles have very different rules and very different consequences for not following the rules. I’m in full agreement there are lots of situations where idiots cause dangerous situations. Everyone stopped at a 4-way stop isn’t one of them. Someone NOT stopping at a 4-way would be one though.

And yeah dude, we’re also talking about VT here. Have you driven in other places? VT roads are mostly very chill and relaxed compared to many places. We barely have any actual traffic. It’s just not really a thing here. The main issue in VT roads is speed, distracted driving, and drunk driving.

"where do they bury power lines"
"we bury power lines in the midwest because its flat"
"no shit you can bury power lines in the midwest because its flat"
what the fuck is that guy mad about lol

Well that's great for you. I see accidents all the time at my local traffic circle from people "waiting in the middle" for other folks at a yield sign.

Two or three days ago at a 2 way stop sign near me, I almost witnessed an accident because someone "waved" on oncoming traffic to take a left. Tires screeching and everything from the cross traffic.

So I guess you're lucky! I have absolutely seen accidents caused by "being nice" and ignoring the rules.

Of course I have. Always by someone who didn’t stop. Not once have I seen one stem from a situation where everyone came to a complete stop and someone waved someone else through out of turn. Please, prove me wrong with actual evidence. You can’t and won’t because it’s not a thing. The accidents that occur at 4-way stops are almost entirely caused by people not coming to a complete stop or trying to rush themselves through out of turn. You’re being laughably absurd here.

Please go ahead and look up the leading causes of accidents. None of them are “someone got waved through a four way stop out of turn.” They almost are all caused by speeding, rushing, or distracted driving. None of those things apply to someone at a complete stop waving for someone else who is also at a complete stop to go first. Get real.

And until I see you arguing on here against anyone going even one mph over the limit (something 99% of us do every single day) I’m going to call BS on you caring about meemaw not knowing the four way stop rules. Speeding is scientifically proven to cost lives. Extensive studies have been done that show how more speed equates to more human deaths. So where is all your energy about speeding? Not just you, but everyone else in this thread too. Instead everyone is just annoyed with a well intentioned person causing no one any harm but maybe a few seconds of delay. Get a grip.

Nobody cares where you eat as long as you’re not a dick about it and don’t make a mess.

You've never seen an accident at a 4 way stop caused by an idiot? Dang, consider yourself lucky. No wonder you're so positive about driving.

I have been waiting here all day to let you go first.

I love that sub. Big fan. Yet I have never once seen an accident there that started from people at a four way stop when all were stopped and one person waved to let another go. Not once. It’s just not an actual thing my dude. You know what I do see a lot there? Over aggressive assholes that need to take a giant chill pill.

And yes, straw man arguments most certainly can be anecdotes that do not apply to the conversation at hand no matter how hard you try to make them apply. In this case, going from a discussion about being waved through a 4 way stop out of turn to not saying anything to meemaw about her lacking trigger disciple is completely insane. Ridiculously absurd. Like hilariously dumb. So yeah, straw man.

One thing Vermonters can’t stand is out of staters that come in and tell us we need to be more like California

Or Beijing: right of way goes to the largest vehicle.

I suggest we use Alaskan rules at a 4-way traffic stop. Right of way goes to whoever has the oldest truck.

/r/idiotsincars Lots of situations there if you need examples.

P.S. Anecdotes aren't straw men.

Lmao, maybe change your rant to “passing illegally” then

While I do agree, the word "should" is doing some heavy lifting in that statement.

It would be an interesting Church Street poll question!

It's called a Canadian Standoff

Good lord that's the perfect term for it.

The "kindness" the post is describing basically amounts to "ignore the rules of driving and do whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy". If you want to be kind then following traffic pattern rules is the best way to do it.

> Friend from Boston says she absolutely hates Vermont drivers because the friendliness can actually create dangerous situations. I see it all the time now

It's not really a VT thing, it's a rural driver thing. The whole being super friendly while driving and making exceptions works fine when there's almost no traffic to deal with but it quickly becomes problematic as traffic density increases. It takes a little while for rural drivers to learn that ruthlessly enforcing traffic pattern rules is actually the most polite way to drive.

I also enjoy how people try to get other drivers to go by waving to them through the glass without realizing glare often makes it nearly impossible to see through the windshield. Just flick your high beams to signal other drivers.

Yep. Richmond, Williston, Underhill…. All good liberal towns.

Right. “Provided it’s clear and…” that part is usually missing.