evidence?

What would Jesus do?

Down vote cause I can't read it all

[deleted]

Just because one lot in an area gets approved, does not mean a nearby property meets the same requirements: One property vs. another in the same area may be closer to wetland buffers, river corridors; it might be at a different elevation and lay partially within a floodplain or near a protected watershed or animal habitat... I have even seen development stopped because the new development would block the view of the landscape beyond from existing homes. I have even seen lawsuits where the purchaser of land from a farm sued the farmer afterwards because of the smell of the manure was too unpleasant for them. (As if they didn't know that would be a consideration before they built there!)

and thanks for the convo! I can't speak to southern VT, or parts below #15 even FTM; despite having traipsed across the State to the point of knowing it blindfolded.

Farming and forestry is what makes VT special, what accounts for its pastoral beauty. VT does grass very well. Sadly the industries that use it are under stress, specially dairy; which started feeling the strain in late 80's early 90's with ops moving first to western NY, then later (with advent of reverse osmosis) to the southwest. Trying to compete with economies of scale elsewhere is a losing proposition.

Going organic, niche specialty dairy products, and the like helps to some degree but can't stem the trend of consolidation, which further erodes the prospect of more farmers via succession.

Thing is, if normal working class folk made a livable wage they could afford to buy produce/meat at those farmers' markets usually reserved for better off tourists and 2nd home owners. They could more directly support their neighbors; though I know that like me, many probably get their whole milk, eggs, beef even, from their neighbors operation.

But the elephant in the room is how little food security there is in Vermont despite being fertile and abundant. Not too different from how many kids would qualify as 1st gen to go to college.

They/it has not been a top priority, despite the bounty of advocates calling it out.

Haven’t been here for very long but I love it. It’s great if you like hiking and/or skiing, and has beautiful nature. I especially love the fall and spring with the fog that blocks out the tops of mountains, it’s so pretty. From what I’ve seen there’s very few chain stores or restaurants outside a handful of larger towns and most businesses are local.

What's wrong with suburbs? The way I look at it if you're middle-class person you should be able to own a home and live in a neighborhood. Yes I get the fact that we need more apartments to fill the void for the lower income bracket of folks but apartment buildings are not going to be the way forward for everyone. There needs to be housing built for every income bracket with the exception being the wealthy as they can just build their own shit / they already have shit.

Up to 2k per month not 1300 now

I may just be getting downvoted because I didn't agree with the tone of the article vs. the points about the failures of capitalism. No big deal, but thank-you for the support. :)

If you were my neighbor, id still keep an eye on your house.

Here are some articles on the subject:

https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2023-01-19/hoping-to-boost-housing-stock-vt-lawmakers-go-after-zoning-rules

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https://vtdigger.org/2023/01/17/to-tackle-the-housing-crisis-vermont-lawmakers-consider-ending-single-family-zoning/

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I believe they are s.226 and s.234. Links to the PDFs docs from the State website below:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjww6SLgJj9AhUfEFkFHWMBB7sQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Flegislature.vermont.gov%2FDocuments%2F2022%2FDocs%2FBILLS%2FS-0226%2FS-0226%2520As%2520Passed%2520by%2520Both%2520House%2520and%2520Senate%2520Official.pdf&usg=AOvVaw18I1mapqbujrjf_8nlUAE8

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjww6SLgJj9AhUfEFkFHWMBB7sQFnoECB0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Flegislature.vermont.gov%2FDocuments%2F2022%2FDocs%2FBILLS%2FS-0234%2FS-0234%2520As%2520Passed%2520by%2520Both%2520House%2520and%2520Senate%2520Official.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3pXF5ZyOzjd2XWnkN4LhZ6

> I tell them to imagine it as a statewide HOA.

Spitballing here, but I'd say 80% of VT is rural hamlets and villes. So lets talk that: valleys with properties usually very near the road built when some farmer sub'd their land and excluded the pastures behind said new homes. Or, properties up along some hillside or gore off dirt roads in the woods. OK?

Those places are akin to HOA's only due to the fact that they're run by the 'town fathers'; the click that collectively ignores everyone at town meeting day to preserve the status quo :)

> My house on 3.5 acres that is part of a neighborhood in rural VT subdivided in the 90s was rezoned to a 5 acre minimum several years ago.

My homestead was on 5ac, abutted by substantially larger tracts of land; either some farm or some woods logged or sugarbushed. I like the 5ac and think 3.5ac would feel too confining if I had neighbors. 5ac is about the min amount that offers real privacy and peace/quiet. I say this bec I have friends on smaller lots and they beef about noise/neighbors with too much regularity.

Just my .02 - Peace Out!

We also spent the last 50 years villifying the trades and pushing 4 year college degrees on everyone to the exclusion of all else. It's no wonder we don't have any trades people anymore when society has been calling people dead end idiots for going to vocational/trade school for two generations now.

I grew up in Worcester, so I most likely have a bias towards it. I think the seclusion there is peaceful. Having no people around in most areas, especially beautiful on the road I grew up on a big river with a mountain and a one lane road filled orange in the Fall. However, Peacham is beautiful, I haven't ever had the reason to visit Craftsbury or Greensboro, so I don't have an idea of their appearance.

yeah like at first it was NIMBY shit which I got but then suddenly they inexplicably tied it to those dingdang wokes with their pronouns and ACAB and it totally lost me

OP lost some brain cells halfway through I guess

100% agree with everything you just said, esp. about the VT Land Trust.

Breaks my heart what happened to the farmers and farming industry in this state, and the State should be doing A LOT MORE to support these new growth industries.

Fingers crossed for Newport too! Thank you for replying to me. :)

Someone mentions the words "failure" and "capitalism" in the same sentence.

Quick guys! DOWNVOTE! /s

Jeez people, we can't criticize capitalism at all?

Sure. Nobody here is suggesting we, like, demolish all existing housing and force everyone to move into apartment blocks constructed exactly with the architecture they used under the Soviet Union or Maoist China. I'm just pointing out that people tend to write off those housing units because they don't look pretty, when the reality is that there are some significant upsides to actually living in them.

Fact of the matter is that social housing can and does work and has been an extremely effective tool for alleviating housing shortages all over the world (including quite a few capitalist nations in the modern day, by the way). You just have to do it right and build with the intention of fostering diverse communities rather than warehousing the poor out of sight as we did here in the States in a prior era.

Any idea what the anti-self-deterministic zoning legislation is called?

Edit: ie the name of the bill.

Many of the problems faced are not unique to VT, some (like graying and edu) are. Being a tourist State so close to the Tri-State corridor and 30M people is impactful too.

A lot of your assertions are correct. Many of these issues have persisted for a long time. Your anecdote regarding farmland may have merit, e.g. using 250 as a weapon. I also think that for as valuable as the VT Land Trust is, it needs more flexibility in addressing conservation vs succession issues. But the truth is that farming in VT is in peril. If not for lack of interest then for poor economy of scale. Beef, organic dairy, hemp, and the like have promise, but its still a threadbare life keeping the machines running.

Sure, its important to attract industries to work-centers like ChitCo, but outside of the 45-60minute commute, the rural problems are still going to be there regardless. I had hope for Newport, but that sure got F'd up. Maybe Hardwick can become a success story (a la Pete's greens and the like).

I just don't thing Big Business should be the first goto to find a fix to small State problems.

There is a middle ground to this I promise you. Doesn’t have to be the elites in their Single families versus massive commie blocks.

Yeah, I was having trouble following the layers of irony, but I think they are shitting on nonbinary people, which really isn't cool.

Our state senate is essentially divided up by county. Not exactly, but close enough that I would call that county level.

I mean what have Vermonters done to fix it other than turn the other cheek or yell about it while the state rots into the ground?