Smart post. From VT, living now in NH. Vermont is curiously easy on the passively rich—Current Use and all that. And services for the poor are decent for a rural state. But Vermont crushes folks with any sort of higher earned income (even if you have little actual wealth). That’s why we took our careers east of the Connecticut River.

I still own a small home in Vermont where my elderly mother lives rent free. She raised me and put me through college and I owe her a dignified old age. Should I get a crushing property tax assessment for this ‘vacation home’ she lives in? Not all property situations fit the current narrative.

> I’m arguing using scientific knowledge and first hand experience, what are you arguing with?

lmao you are arguing by trying to avoid what is obviously my question. You have done backflips to try to avoid answering it.

>Again “born male or female” on a biological level isn’t a yes or no situation. Biology is much messier than that.

Not accurate. For more than 99% of people it really is that simple.

You are trying to avoid answering the question at all costs because you know your answer doesn't make any sense.

I wish not to be in congress. Where I wish to be is in my garage making guitars for musicians who will make beautiful music with them.

You spoke of using testosterone being unallowable in sports, which is false. Try reading the article I linked and you will see examples of Olympians who have transitioned hormonally and have competed after transition.

You talk about biological sex as if there are only two which is scientifically (not socially) false as is the idea of a gender binary (again scientifically and in this case socially as well).

You refer to trans people based on your perception of their biological sex which is terfy. In order to reproduce you need a person with a uterus who is capable of carrying a fetus to term, and a fertilized egg, good old science has shown you don't require sperm so your male and female requirement is inaccurate.

Referring to genetic conditions as birth defects is also incorrect.

It's not a ridiculous tactic to site the death of a marginalized community member who lived in the geographical vicinity of the same marginalized group you are reducing to genitalia. There is no push to allow men in female spaces, you're not welcome and we don't want you there. But I will welcome any trans woman who is interested with open arms.

We are discussing gender, not sex. And I have not once said that simply discussing it leads to murders, but I did say that we don't live in a vacuum in VT and our community isn't immune to the type of violence that is perpetrated against this community around the world just because VT is "progressive". Words matter, they guide action and bothering and excluding individuals absolutely leads to violence. Whether it is external or self inflicted. But enjoy your runs, cause honestly that's the top priority here right?

Sadly you have no future in congress then.

deerefield rivier on rt9 is southern vt cant go wrong

in fact im an avid fly fisherman in southern vermont feel free to msg me if you need good spots

Again “born male or female” on a biological level isn’t a yes or no situation. Biology is much messier than that. And cognitively within development the internal sense of self isn’t determined by what gamete you produce. Nope that’s not what’s happening here you aren’t the victim in this conversation. I’m arguing using scientific knowledge and first hand experience, what are you arguing with?

It’s fine but stupid expensive. Better off at Olympic

Unless the land is posted and signed, you are allowed to respectfully access it legally. This goes for any private land in Vermont. Local custom is to ask first, despite that not being legally required, just the polite thing to do.

Edit: the caveat being, if someone asks you to leave, you need to leave. Once they tell you that you are not welcome, you are trespassing.

Edit2: another caveat, if you get hurt on their land and it wasn't because of a hazard they created, they are not liable.

i do not possess any of those traits.

You are using the term female to mean woman. If you are born male, you can not identify as female. You can identify as a woman but you cannot ever become female.

If you are using this definition that is universally accepted in the scientific community do you think there is ever a scenario where you can have female only spaces? Or do you believe males should always be allowed in?

> I know the people in my life would be safer in their company than with someone who makes arguments like the one you are trying to make

Honestly that is an insane position to take. This is why there is a backlash against the new trans movement... if someone says "well what about this situation..." the response is OMG YOU ARE LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE!

[deleted]

Fine. I omitted previously these other GOP attributes required for membership:

misogynist, racist, greedy, ignorant, cheating, vote-suppressing, elitist, child -molesting, anti-science, regressive, anti-vaxing scumbags.

Get the gist yet?

I’m always amazed at how our guy backs his truck up our long winding driveway

But here is my answer. I believed there should be spaces for female identifying individuals to be separate from male identifying individuals. No I don’t believe that should be determined by the type of gamete produced. I have trans people in my life I know and love and I know the people in my life would be safer in their company than with someone who makes arguments like the one you are trying to make. Yes I am generalizing you.

Not a problem, best of luck

Yea I intend to use designated pull outs and hike up and downstream (on the banks). I just know some states have mineral rights and water rights. I’m going to do some more research and narrow down the spots I want to fish.

Thanks!

I wouldn’t walk through someone’s land and just fish in their river, but I haven’t heard of anyone having problems fly fishing, especially since you can wade to those spots. There are a lot of river access pull offs all over the state. I’m not sure on easement laws but I’ve been fishing this state for as long as I can remember and have never had any issue granted there are a lot of new homeowners who may not understand how it works around here. You could always reach out to our fish and wildlife dept for those laws.

I didn't say anything about testosterone levels in female athletes. That has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am specifically talking about allowing biological males, which have a long established physical advantage, to compete in biological female divisions.

>I'm not sure if it's intentional, but when you say that a trans woman could take a spot from a female athlete you are implying that trans women aren't women.

No, I am working on the fact that they are not female. In each event in track and field, on the olympic level, each country sends three male and three female athletes.

I literally have competed against a trans athlete in Vermont that is trying to get one of the three spots in this sports national under 20 women's team. If she achieves it, the national team will have to bump whoever was the third best female in this sport that year. This would mean that in this sport we will have 4 males now and just 2 females.

>The idea of a gender binary is not only biologically inaccurate

My friend, to reproduce humans need exactly one male and one female. Birth defects are NOT related to the concept of transgender and do not inform this debate at all.

>Fern Feather was killed less than a year ago.

This is honestly a ridiculous tactic. I am only speaking about the push to allow males into previously female only spaces. In no way does talking about this argue that we should kill people.

It is shocking how any discussion about the role of sex in society goes... if you even discuss it activist types will say that your discussion is causing murders.

No I literally just gave you the current scientific theory of those concepts. In a semantically correct way. Again I will refer to what I just said I don’t think your personal definition lines up with the biological and psychosocial definitions.

See my point stands because you literally refuse to answer a very basic question without making ridiculous jokes.

You literally cannot just respond... everything involves a word salad trying to wiggle out of answering.

Are there any situations where it is ok to have female only spaces or should males be allowed in if they want to?

Actually you are confusing male with the term "man" and the term female with the term "woman."

Instead of a massive word salad trying to argue about definitions of words can you just answer in good faith?

Are there circumstances where it is ok to have female only spaces? Or should males be allowed in to them as well?

I'm not talking about women, I'm saying female. It is a scientific term. Is there any justification for a space for biological females only or should biological males be allowed in ANY space.

keep going!

I can't see your whole comment, but let me relpy:

I think that you're cherrypicking your 'facts' to fit your narrative. And by 'facts' I mean this bullshit article that you linked me to.

You didn't even understand the first scentence, and you took that as "40% of all cops beat their wives" and then doubled down by saying "if you bump into a cop, it's a coin flip that they have beaten their wife"...