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Last time I was there I saw Avengers;Endgame there and it was pretty quiet. I guess the pandemic shut it down even more.

Retail malls are largely dying.

It’s being redeveloped. This has been planned for years…

The pandemic was the death knell, but that whole area has been doing a slow fade for at least a decade.

I’m honestly a little curious as to why—I realize lots of the luxury stores probably weren’t getting enough foot traffic to stay open, but the whole area was pretty convenient for shopping with some restaurants in the mix, and I guess I’m a surprised it cratered so dramatically.

Big box retail yes. Smaller stores in lower-to-medium density walkable downtown areas, definitely not.

Once CityCenter opened and the high end boutiques moved downtown, it was just a matter of time I guess. Not to mention L&T and Nieman Marcus. I hope Bloomingdale's and Saks can survive with all the decline.

Most of the luxury stores closed down when City Center opened. I doubt DC can sustain two Diors or LVs. I'm surprised Tiffany's is still there. I suspect it won't be for long.

Retail is dying Nd they keep trying to increase renta at the same time. DC is losing businesses quickly.

How is this answer not getting to the top? This has been in the works for literally years. It’s getting turned into condos with some retail.

City Center DC was a much more glamorous location for the fancy stores, so that's where the monied shopping went. And the rents don't work if the high dollar stores aren't bringing through volume. Once some spots left and stayed empty, it was a faster and faster flight of anything worth going to while parking and local groceries remained exorbitant.

Sure, it has easy metro and bus access, but you've got better options in almost any direction - Tenleytown, Bethesda, Chevy Chase Circle - are all nearby.

Plus the food scene there was pretty bad... mostly big chains that are more typical in suburban mallscapes and a few mediocre renditions of local chains. There had been some indie restaurants, but the Voltaggio thing was never that good and Mazza itself had no dining but a weird McD's.

Very sad for me because it was a part of my teen years. Hang out spot after middle school.

It’s been going in that direction and honestly, I don’t mind. I have good memories of the place but a bunch of luxury stores in that area just isn’t sustainable anymore, and frankly it always made it rather boring as somewhere to hang out in. I know the likeliest replacement is office space, but here’s to hoping they come up with something better, friendship heights is a nice area that has a ton of potential.

>Developer Tishman Speyer acquired the Friendship Heights building in May 2021 and announced it will redevelop it as apartments, but retaining a large portion for retail, as well as parking

All of them will be "luxury" with high rent that will never go down.

This. Georgetown is slam packed on weekends.

Last time I was there was in 2019 (on a date no less!) and it was depressing AF

Same with the parking structure roof next door to it!

So do you know if any of those places are actually getting any business? I walk through there (City Ctr) about once a week on my after lunch walks, and I rarely see anyone actually in the stores.

Truly the end of an era. Thanks for the memories, Mazza Gallerie.

Yeah, I haven't done much in person shopping since the start of the pandemic but want the stores to be there when I want to shop in the future. I know, of course, that's not how things work.

I did go to the Tiffany's at Friendship Heights this year and it was dead. But it was a work day that I had off. Maybe it's busier during the weekend. I can't imagine that DC needs two Tiffany's. And a sales associate at the one in City Center told me they get a lot of tourist traffic, which is now coming back. I doubt many tourists go to Friendship Heights. I don't expect that one to last.

Gentrification

And alleviating pressures on older buildings. More housing is rarely a bad thing. Luxury just means new. Rich people will live wherever regardless. More housing choice for everyone.

Sad, been going there for years. Hard to believe it’s closed now

Damn I thought it already has closed

And the shopping center across the street will probably be next. There is nothing in there but the CVS and the Ward 3 DC Covid Center where the J Crew used to be.

Not really. Friendship Heights is already a high income area

Yea... It was a joke

You're right to call it will not really be luxury. Shiny with doorman etc but cheaply built like most or all of the new construction in DC

>And alleviating pressures on older buildings. More housing is rarely a bad thing. Luxury just means new. Rich people will live wherever regardless. More housing choice for everyone.

More housing choice if you are willing pay 50% of your take home pay unless you want to live in a crime or gang infested area of the city. Those older buildings have not lowered their rent for decades and nor has these new "luxury" apartments no matter how much got built. How much is Bozzuto paying you to spout zombie talking points?

Well, I guess it's a bummer that it finally closed, but it's hardly new news that it was going to be redeveloped. Honestly, I was surprised the TJ Maxx was still there. I do hope that a new movie theater is able to go into that space! Guess we'll see.......

RIP

This was how I felt when the Bethesda Barnes & Noble died.

Lmao all these Friendship Heights malls have been dead for years 💀

>They’re like actively destroying it,

The technical term for this is "demolition."

>zombie talking points

Developers don't need to directly pay anybody -- our nation's most expensive colleges and universities are churning out legions of people that unthinkingly believe this stuff.

There are always other people shopping in Bloomingdales when I've been in there. It's not packed, but there are in person shoppers. I suspect that one will hang on. Saks has been empty the few times I've gone in over the past year or so.

Lol. I mean, if by that you mean understanding basic supply and demand principles, then I guess I'm doing it pro bono. Keep living in fantasy land thinking housing supply works with fairy dust.

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yeah, here are the plans: https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/a-first-look-at-the-residential-transformation-for-dcs-mazza-gallerie-mall/19897

300+ apartments, with affordable housing making up a portion.

They could build more affordable apartments, but the developers didn't want to risk asking the neighborhood for permission (PUD), which could add decades to the process and risk financial ruin.

yeah Pike and Rose siphoned off the suburbanites and the revival of the central core of DC (city center/wharf/navy yard) meant that the area kinda was no-mans land. There is hope if the wisconsin corridor keeps getting denser, but that is still an open question.

Does that mean they need more permission for affordable units or permission to add to the total number of units?

in dc it is 'raze'. they were issued a 'raze permit' last month.

same street, different trajectories.

lol, seriously if the rent is under 3000/month it will be cheaper than most of the surrounding areas. do you live here? this is the richest part of the city. median incomes are higher than even in georgetown.

they are keeping lots of the old concrete mall, including some of the thick-ass brick walls. it looks to be a partial re-skinning.

the raze permit was issued a while back. not really new news.

it has been approved for 300+ apartments. minimal office space.

the CVS is closed now too.

nope. plans are for all apartments.

That could be good news. When they updated the IMF building on 19th/H St, it took forever and more expensive, apparently, than rebuilding the whole 9/10 floors .

latter. the economics only work with so many market rate units. DC allows you to increase the building, but then you have to add a larger proportion of IZ (inclusive zoning) affordable units.

however this is subject to city and neighborhood approval. if you know anything about some of the neighbors, you know that may be near impossible and open you up to decades of litigation. basically, the residents are mostly lawyers themselves and can bankroll infinite amounts of lawyering.

No. Condos with some retail as well

fair about the minimal 25k sqft of retail. but there are no condos planned: https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/a-first-look-at-the-residential-transformation-for-dcs-mazza-gallerie-mall/19897

Wow. It was already creepy to go to the Covid Center from the subway through there. Now it will be even more deserted.

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Yes I do live in the area. I was born here and I remember when cheap apartments are no longer built, bs luxury apartments are being built while older no frills apartments got demolished

What they need is high density mixed income housing. But I doubt anyone will do it. Luxury condos are not going make a dent by themselves.

the bloomingdales is great and that saks is one of the worst i've ever been to. hope bloomgs can stay around

honestly? I don't think it matters (and academic studies back that up).

plus other buildings all up and down Wisconsin aren't particularly expensive, especially by DC standards. what matters is having customers within easy distance. once you get off wisconsin, density falls very quickly.

basically what happens is when new 'expensive' apartments come in, other apartments get a bit cheaper. if you live nearby, I can point you in the direction of decent and not too-expensive units in buildings on Mass, CT, NM, and Wisconsin ave.

those kinda stores don't need a lot of foot traffic. it is more a model of a few customers a day who drop serious bank & employees who know and take care of them

Housing in upper NW have been increasing slower than upper NW wages (decent data goes back to 1960). All buildings on CT and WI aves aren't even keeping up with inflation these days.

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hahahahhaahhahahahahaha. no it isn't. where do people come up with this stuff? man we need to seriously prevent out of towners from posting here.

https://www.mazzagallerie.com/

Mazza Gallerie 5300 Wisconsin Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20015

Well yeah, you need to have the ubiquitous smell of weed and a domestic violence arrest every week or so.

End of a era

Covid and online shopping

This is what I heard as well. We’re talking customers who drop 10 - 50k as easily as we might get a Starbucks. Often times it’s personal shoppers who come in for their clients.

I’m also just wondering what, if anything, this means for the other side. Not in the same building that TJ Maxx, movie theater and McDonalds were in. But the other side. The side where the CVS and Cheesecake Factory are in. Is that building going to remain up?

The COVID Center is in the former H&M space

>yeah Pike and Rose siphoned off the suburbanites

Nah, it was Bethesda Row (and City Center) that did the siphoning. Williams-Sonoma and Anthropologie, for example, both left Friendship Heights and relocated to Bethesda long before Pike & Rose started to develop.

>basic supply and demand principles

It's not basic supply and demand principles. It's the real estate version of trickle down economics. We all know how well that worked out.

​

> Keep living in fantasy land thinking housing supply works with fairy dust.

Sounds like you've taken your own advice.

RE: city center - I shop there all the time and I know others that do as well. Some of the stores don't have much foot traffic (Vince for example) but other ones get a lot of traffic (Louis V, Dior, Kate Spade, the restaurants). The stores on the outside edges of the complex legitimately don't seem to get much traffic though so not sure how they are staying afloat.

Yes yes, whatever. The rest of us know building more housing and removing those barriers are better for the people you think you're helping. Just stand to the side while the rest of us pass you by.

This makes me sad. I always loved the Gallerie 😢

https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/a-first-look-at-the-residential-transformation-for-dcs-mazza-gallerie-mall/19897

Because people who grew up in that area are noting the passing of an era. It was kind of a thing. Doesn’t matter what it’s becoming.

Well to be fair the article does make this pretty clear.

People have been saying this since the development opened over 7 years now.

There are often people just randomly lined up outside Gucci on a Saturday, I would hope that’s a good sign.

Georgetown is popping lately also- when I end up there on a weekend lately, I’m always shock at how many people are actively shopping. A few stores have closed but they’ve mostly been replaced, and overall it appears to be doing great as a destination.

I know we need more housing. I'm not denying that at all. But I'm also a little sad whenever someplace I used to have a lot of fun at goes residential.

I have lots of good memories of shopping up and down Wisconsin Avenue years ago, especially before Christmas. Paul's and Sur La Table are also now long gone.

If you're going to shill for luxury developers, you at least should ask for a paycheck. With that, you might be able to actually help people.

yeah, Georgetown was hit by the pandemic, not by the structural shift in shopping patterns and stuff. It isn't directly on the metro, but it is pretty central and easy for both MoCo and NoVa folks to get to. Plus the eastern part of M st is easy to walk to from the metro.

That's Chevy Chase Pavilion. The CVS closed a while back, but there's a TMobile store in there, as well as a pop-up art gallery.

Thanks! Had no idea the CVS in there had closed (it’s been years; pre-pandemic, since I’ve been there). Good to know the T-mobile store in there is still surviving.

Wow that's been forever now

They didn’t close, they moved to City Center

Georgetown has college students now. It’s dead when schools isn’t in session

Once the Borders closed, there was no reason for me to return unless the DC Filmfest had a showing at the AMC.

Lol, that makes me feel so old! I have such fond memories of hanging out around there are a kid.

Did you ever go to the on in Georgetown? That's the one I miss the most?