Oh that is interesting. The bass boost on the zen dacs are kind of single frequency. Doesn’t extend the bass. Got tired of it after the first month.

So they added more sub-bass to the XS. Cool 😎

Do they have more bass or sufficient bass? I’ve been looking at Edition XS lately to upgrade from the Sundara.

Right, but I’d wager it’s more fun pairing some Hifimans with V shaped planars like the 1060C and 1570s.

By the way, would you say the Edition XS is kind of the beginning of that Sundara + Bass journey or do we have to look at $1k+?

It’s just the bass, most Hifimans lack this. You can try Monolith 1060C with recessed mids or 1070C without recessed mids.

Monolith 1570 will have more depth.

Thanks 🙏 for the confirmation.

So you found cases where distortion in high volume affected sound quality?

🥲😂😇🥹

That is very informative and thank you for staying on this, as it is an issue I’ve come across.

From other forums and reviews, I’ve learned that some He6SE can be driven to greater effect with 6Watts, much more than spec.

I also experience this with my Sundara as 300mW is sufficient but 1W sounds better. Which is why I asked if the 1060C could be driven better.

And it doesn’t seem to be “distortion”, but perhaps 🤔 it could be considered that after all.

Yeah but I found the sound signature to be lacking lows. —confirming what some of these reviewers say.

But it isn’t always volume. There are cases where I can get sufficient volume but found the sub-bass smoothed or rolled-off.

Or you’d rather say the amount of volume isn’t high enough to render the mids or lows?

I can get sufficient amount of volume with my 250ohm DT880 Pros from amps not rated for 250 ohms. **but it doesn’t sound good.

Right, so headphones do need a certain power to drive them because some have more resistance. Therefore when they aren’t provided with enough power it can be considered “under-powered”.

Is it taboo to say under powered? Or that they don’t sound “good” when under powered?

Am I wrong to describe the sound of an under powered headphone?

But I can plug in planars into a dongle Dac, and have enough volume.

Ok so it’s not 100% due to power. So some headphones have more resistance.

“Impedance is a specification used to show the headphone's resistance to the electrical current.”

“Headphones with higher impedance (25 ohms and over, approximately) demand more power to deliver high audio levels.”

—-that’s why I thought it was due to power.

I found this comment to be useful.

“Planar magnetics affect the output voltage uniformly due to the fixed impedance, which means that the result should just be a shift in voltage by a factor x. “

Personally: There’s definitely some sound coming out of headphones when they aren’t driven correctly.

And that sound, to me, is very compressed or thin.

Oh thanks for clearing that up.

I’ve tried my Sundara on my Dragonfly Black into the phone and even at higher volume it sounded thin.

I bought a 3.5mm to RCA to amp the Dragonfly Black and it instantly sounded full.

That’s what I mean.

Is under powered headphone not a thing?

That’s just too extreme. Even with my limited experience, I’ve heard differences from mobile EK17, to Audinst HUD-MX1, to iFi ZEN DAC V2.

All I’m saying is the headphone needs certain amount of mW to sound full. You can just use the headphone power calculator.

Would you not agree that 250ohms would sound thin under powered when used with an inadequate dongle Dac?

Klogg4 is saying he powers his 250ohm headphone with 40mW amp?

Wow that is really interesting 🧐 indeed. Under powering headphones is something likely everyone experiences.

But sure if you’re happy your experience than more power to you🤷‍♂️

lol yeah? What do you listen to then, measurements?😇

Yeah that’s what I’m saying, they sound different. Listening in 90dB on lower power vs higher power amp makes a difference.

There’s a min amount of power needed to fully drive the headphones. Can you really not hear the difference between your 2mW source? …If at 90dB you believe you only use 2mW, then why would different do headphones come with different impedance and ohms.

Like if that were the case, try them plugged into old laptops or tablets that have even less than your dongle Dac.

😅

If you watched any reviewer, at some point they talk about when a pair of headphones is under driven, certain amps seemingly not being able to drive a headphone even though on paper they should.

Man this is something you can test out yourself, just by plugging your headphones into different sources. You’re giving me the impression that you’ve never heard your 250ohm powered headphones properly powered. 🥲

Thanks 🙏 for the info. Going to stick to this combo for now. There’s some posts about planars sounding better with THX amps and that got me checking out the cheaper THX amp. Haha

Nope. Not how any of that works. AMP isn’t just about volume. Under powering headphones make them sound thin.

Like yeah if you listen to them really low, you probably don’t even care to drive them fully. 🤣

lol dude volume isn’t the issue.

To my ears 👂. And also tried low volume on high gain vs. much higher volume on low gain.

Yes

Yeah but nobody is marketing them for high gain. And I bought them cheap used. Personally I noticed a lot of comments on “apple dongle are good enough” BS.

Lots of dongle dacs paired headphones when the cheap ones only output 45mW.

Lots of BS from people denying basic mW spec of their own headphones.

Then there’s a bunch of people who just don’t understand planars.

Fact: * Planar scales with wattage.

Don’t get me started on the “all dacs or amps” sound the same people.

I see lots of ignorance from all sides really. 🤣😂

I tried all the combos haha. Had lower volume on high gain still sound more full.