MeatsimPD

MeatsimPD t1_j94onvw wrote

Except that Donetsk and Luhansk are part of Ukraine, not Russia. And the West Bank is not part of Israel.

But of course violence against civilians is wrong, the issue needs to be solved by the governments involves not by killing or harming civilians (even if they are illegally settling outside their country)

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MeatsimPD t1_j93sumo wrote

> Did a single settlement consist of kicking out Palestinians, razing it, and building a Jewish community ontop or are you going to send me articles about animals grazing or roads being put up?

I honestly believe you being deliberately obtuse if you're going to tell me it doesn't matter to people whose livelihoods is raising animals whether or not they have access to grazing lands.

But to answer your question the answer is yes, here's some examples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehelim

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brukhin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modi%27in_Illit

And here are the camps many of the people who have lost their homes now live in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps

Even today Palestinian homes are being torn down https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem

>Israel isn't leaving the west Bank willingly and the majority settlment blocks are never going to be evacuated.

I don't disagree, Israel's military occupation is permanent for the foreseeable future, but none of this changes the facts:

Fact 1) The West Bank is not part of Israel's territory

Fact 2) Annexing territory by force is against international law

Fact 3) Settling your citizens on seized lands outside of your state's territory is against international law.

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MeatsimPD t1_j93osiy wrote

> And you're pretending the settlements are specifically displacing existing communities to move in Israeli communities. That's not happening

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/20/land-beyond-road-forbidden-israeli-settler-shepherds-displacing-palestinians

https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/stories/in-the-west-bank-segregated-roads-displace-palestinians/index.html

No one can honestly say that all the land occupied by Israeli settlers was empty or unowned prior to their arrival. Honestly you've just made one of the most absurd statements about the West Bank I've ever heard, so absurd I have to believe it's a deliberate lie because no one could be so misinformed

>As for Gaza, they removed them first and have Hamas now. There's zero chance Israel is making the same mistake

Are you telling me that the rise of Hamas in Gaza is because Israel removed it's settlements?

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MeatsimPD t1_j938ffe wrote

> The west Bank has never be part of a formal country

Even if this were true, it doesn't mean it's "free real estate" that any other country can just go in and settle without regard to the people who live there. Colonialism is not a thing anymore.

>Which is all to say, Israel has already shown a willingness to evacuate its citizens in exchange for peace (see: Sinai, Gaza, and proposed Golan heights).

That's true, Israel did withdraw from the Sinai and has a lasting peace with Egypt. That withdraw includes removing the settlements Israelis had established.

But Israel has not withdrawn from the Golan Heights or the West Bank, though it did withdraw from Gaza. These examples show that while removing settlements doesn't immediately lead to peace, it is a necessary pre condition.

>Additionally, Ukraine thinks of itself as Israel in the conflict, not the Palestinians

Does it? Ukraine isn't forcibly occupying territory outside its recognized borders, but Israel is

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MeatsimPD t1_j92jh9s wrote

> Hamas is well known for using human shields

None of the examples I cited where this, one of them was even an IDF investigation that found it has killed several children without there being a military target nearby.

I'm sensing a pattern where you aren't engaged in reality

>Do you acknowledge that some of those towns were there before the region was divided between Israel and Palestine?

Absolutely there were Jewish communities in the West Bank before 1948 or 1967 but not many. We also have a list of these settlements so you can see when they were founded

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_settlements

Note that these were built after Israel occupied the West Bank even though the West Bank is NOT Israeli territory

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MeatsimPD t1_j92he0q wrote

> Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from

I mean that's demonstrably untrue, for example https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-finds-israeli-strike-killed-5-children-in-gaza-during-recent-operation-report/

Also I noticed you didn't respond to the topic of Israel's occupation and settlement outside of it's territory. Do you acknowledge that it's a crime to annex territory through force and settle your citizens in that territory? Yes or no.

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MeatsimPD t1_j928zi3 wrote

It's not a foreign nation unless Israel has recognized a sovereign state of Palestine. (It hasn't) and if it was a foreign nation then settling your citizens in it's territory would still be absolutely illegal under international law

And yes civilians have been targeted and have been killed by both sides in this conflict and the act of targeting civilians is immoral and illegal regardless of who is occupying who

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MeatsimPD t1_j928rb6 wrote

Reminder that the West Bank is not Israeli territory and it's a crime under international law to forcibly annex territory through war and to settle your citizens in that territory.

When Russia conquers a chunk of Ukraine, declares part of it it's territory, and moves in Russian citizens to settle there, it's just as illegal as Israel conquering the West Bank, declaring part of it's territory, and moving it's citizens in to settle there.

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MeatsimPD t1_j928fi7 wrote

> Arab Israelis have the exact same rights as Jewish Israelis.

What about people under Israeli military occupation? Let's not forget that the West Bank and Golan Heights are not part of Israel. Yet millions of people live in these areas and are denied or refuse Israeli citizenship, including representation in government, yet live unde Israeli law (whether civil or military law)

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MeatsimPD t1_j5nfvgc wrote

Exercises can be cancelled whenever, just send a simple order to stand down and return to barracks.

And Trump definitely cancelled military exercises, though ones that were done annually for decades and not specifically planned under Obama

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/29/trump-says-no-reason-for-military-exercises-with-south-korea-despite-stalled-nuke-talks-with-north.html

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MeatsimPD t1_j567pu5 wrote

> I’m sure the people of Afghanistan were being “oppressed” by evil America, with all that money spent, the womens rights they tried to instill.

Most Afghans never saw a penny of any American money. There's no denying the US tries to do good things and accomplished a lot especially for women's rights, but the government we backed with violence wasn't legitimate to Afghans because it was corrupt and self serving. It's no surprise they didn't fight and die for it

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MeatsimPD t1_j52d54x wrote

I'm betting you didn't learn of the full scope of slavery or it's lingering affects on the United States and the people who suffered under it. Especially if you went to school in the south where they still talk about how slave owners looked after and educated their slaves and other nonsense

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MeatsimPD t1_j3tf9y1 wrote

> Shouldn't those that support open borders enthusiastically support helping migrants reach their final destination

No one supports open borders.

Maybe if Republicans stopped saying the border was open and started echoing Biden who's telling people the border isn't open and to not show up there, then we'd have less people showing up expecting it to be open https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3800810-biden-warns-migrants-do-not-just-show-up-at-the-border/

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MeatsimPD t1_j2a4a6j wrote

Oh the Tsar was very concerned with what the peasants were up to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okhrana

In the decades leading up to the overthrow of the Monarchy in 1927, there were a lot of assassination attempts on the Tsars and high ranking officials, plus numerous attempts to overthrow them. They were very much aware and interested in who was supporting or influenced by these revolutionary movements

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MeatsimPD t1_j29rdto wrote

Most people don't realize that nearly every gun used in a crime was legally produced and sold by it's manufacture or reseller when its first sold to the general public.

America has a serious problem with companies that produce things that are too often used to commit crime or cause harm. I'd place big pharma, health insurance providers, and gun manufacturers in that category of companies designed to profit from things that too often just make people's lives worse

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MeatsimPD t1_j29fmxd wrote

It's like guns. People assume all these things are brought into the US illegally or sold in stores illegally. Truth is that it's mostly been entirely legal and extremely profitable for pharmaceuticals and gun manufacturers to sell products that create human misery in whatever quantity they want. And instead of them being held accountable it's always the street dealer selling their product or the user that faces consequences

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